New Dave Series - Guesswork and Rumours

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Andrew, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Really really no. I would like the new shows, unlike BTE, to actually be good.(unless you are talking about effects only as they were good)
     
  2. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    I'd like the new episodes to be like BTE, the best piece of TV of the year, I expect they will.
     
  3. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Ah come on, It wasn't that bad a year.
     
  4. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    No, Red Dwarf: BTE was just so good.
     
  5. Sunnybrand

    Sunnybrand Skutter

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    Then you must have had some good drugs
     
  6. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Nope. I did eat Peanuts, easter egg, mars bars and peanuts through the 3 nights though.

    Then again, I have seen it many times since with no peanuts...
     
  7. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Right. Because Moulin Rouge has been topping my "movies to watch" list for years.
    I'll get right on that.
    ;-)
     
  8. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    So it should. It's a bloody good film.
     
  9. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    Of course, we've all watched the 1952 version of Moulin Rouge to see the uncredited performance of Red Dwarf's own Mahatma Ghandi, Charles Reynolds.....it always comes back to Red Dwarf!!
     
  10. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Allow me to elaborate upon "Rage of Angels" comment about charm.

    Here's what I remember about my youth: Watching movies in awe and wonderment. Wondering "How'd they do that?" Being totally engrossed in the concept of "movie magic". When I'd watch the "making of" specials on films, I thought "That is so cool. It's like a magic trick." Movie making used to be a real craft. A real art form. DPs were masters of illusions, experts in slight of hand.

    Now it doesn't matter what effect you see in a film, I don't ask (and neither do most people I suspect) "How'd they do that?" Instead everyone just assumes "CGI" or some other uninteresting computer effect (even if it's not the case). The magic is gone. A friend and I joked for years about that in fact. We'd watch one of the many lame movies of the early 2000's that utilized unconvincing CGI and he'd say sarcastically to me "How'd they do that?" and if I was in the mood, I'd reply flatly "computers."

    Now I'll grant you CGI has come a long way and is looking progressively more convincing. But honestly it is no more awe inspiring to me no matter how convincing. In other words: a CGI object could look as real as "Mr. Simon Sarcastic" and I'd still prefer him to his CGI counterpart because he'd have more charm (albeit only slightly ;-)

    Let me restate for clarification purposes: I don't CARE how REAL an example of CGI is. It is irrelevant to my argument.

    Allow me to use the following analogy:

    A pregnant woman sews together a Rag Doll for her daughter-to-be.
    The daughter gets the rag doll for her first birthday along with a store bought doll from her father.
    Both gifts are given lovingly by her parents and have the potential to garner sentimental value.
    Which doll will the daughter appreciate 20 years from now?
    A carbon copy, mass marketed, polished doll, perfected by computer algorithms and flawless designs?
    Or a hand sewn doll with all its imperfections and all its CHARM.

    So my point is this: CGI lacks charm. Yes I mean that as an all encompassing remark. Though I usually try my best to avoid absolute remarks. So I will not say that CGI ruins a good film. I will say however, in my opinion that any given movie 9 times out of 10 would be better and more CHARMING to me if they used practical effects to achieve what they were going for instead of using CGI.
     
  11. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    OK Granted doing something for real usually is better than doing it in the computer but when used correctly the CGI work can be awe inspiring and charming.

    The first time most people saw the Matrix, they were in awe of the effects - I don't think anyone cared that they were CGI - they looked amazing.
    Pretty much any Pixar film is oozing in charm and they are entirely CGI, but it is so well done with such style that it doesn't matter.
    Serenity - This has some amazing effects - both CGI and live. They made the CGI stuff realistic and believeable by making sure it wasn't too clean - the camera goes off centre or out of focus at times as though it is having trouble keeping up.
    Lord Of The Rings - there were a few bits that didn't work (Legolas jumping on the horse) but on the whole the effect looked great. And they had the right mix of how the effects were done that it worked really well.

    There are probably more examples of it being done badly than well but there are some films that use it so well that most people don't wonder if it is CGI or real, just how good the film is. I don't think they are thinking 'oh they are just CGI' instead they are thinking 'WOW!'.

    Don't get me wrong, I prefer effects to be done live when they can be but I don't agree that it can't be charming or awe inspiring.
     
  12. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Right. As I was telling Talkie earlier though: It's the nature of the effects in respect to the story. Like in Holoship where there was computer effects. Well it was a ship of light ran by a computer, of course computer effects are appropriate. So the Matrix was supposed to be a computer generated world. Therefore it is entirely appropriate (and even preferred) that the effects in the film are computer generated as well.

    Pixar films are different entirely. While I generally don't enjoy them (personal preference), they are like you said 100% CGI. And that's pretty obvious. No one is watching a scene second guessing if it's real or not.

    I think my issue has always been CGI in an otherwise "real" film. But it seems that we agree on preferring live effects or practical effects so that's cool.
     
  13. Deviblue

    Deviblue Second Technician

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    A - CG is a given. Love it or hate it, its going to happen. It cuts costs on so many things and probably one of the reasons BTE could be made for the budget it had.
    B - Norman isn't going to happen - bridges burnt and all that malarky
    C - I actually said the new series would need something like this a while ago...and suggested some ideas for flashback clips in a 'Previously on Red Dwarf' Montage Like I say here
    D - Laughter, Red Dwarf Needs it. Either as a live Audience or a Recorded Audience at a cinema screening (as they did in a previous series) Without it theres just something lacking. Like it or not Red Dwarf is and always shall be a sitcom. Its not a comedy drama.
    E - Red Dwarf has always used parodies and I can't see it changing now
    F - I don't think BTE did anything wrong in this respect - if it aint broke don't fix it
    G - BTE was a perfect ending for kochanski as part of the regular cast, plus with her not there it gives something for Lister to aim for again - Find Kochanski, win her over, get back to earth
    H - it never really left did it? just always out of shot
     
  14. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    A) I now really would rather have Hattie return anyway. I'd agree with you on the norman thing with burnt bridges. On the commentaries for the first series there seems to be a bit of bad blood brooding lol If Hattie nor norman were to do it, its been suggested Bill Bailey could be holly, personally ithink Bob Mortimer, Colin Mochrie or Ruth Jones would make great Hollys respectively.

    C) Lol I think I expect some scrawling text as in the beginning of series 3 lol

    D) I agree on the canned laughter, I'm a huge fan of IT Crowd and they still use it so its good enough for Red Dwarf!
    though I can take or leave it, as in other sci fi like LEXX or MOON that contain similar sci fi weird and comedic scenarios where canned laughter is not used.

    E) Thats what i was totally telling people on some other threads, its always used parodies! or rather pastiches in admiration of the source material.

    F) If Rimmer's living he should go back to a more Series 1 look, if he's dead then the BTE uniform was great! but bring back the blue quilted hardlight jacket every now and again lol

    G) Do you think chloe annet will get just one or two episodes then? perhaps norman lovett could be brought in for just the one episode as well. I thought a great premise would be that holly had gone with kochanski when she fled the dwarf (explaining hollys absence in the BTE specials)???
     
  15. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    ooooo if they were to do a movie, eddie izzard would be a great holly, OR bad guy.
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I would hope that Chloe only appears in one off episodes from now on and then is sparingly used. There isn't a need for her to be a part of the ordinary episodes, it's enough to mention her now and again to remind people of what's driving Lister on.
     
  17. plasmo1

    plasmo1 Skutter

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    What about the Planet of the Nymphomaniacs? :twisted:
     
  18. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I'm hoping that in the not-too-distant future virtual reality games will progress to the point that we can play that Red Dwarf game.

    I've said it before, so it would be hypocritical of me to say any different now. I liked Kochanski, including Chloe's performance, in series VIII. I would like to see her play a large part in any future series. Remember, we don't know what format the show will take, so all bets are off as far as her role in the show is concerned.
     
  19. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I thought she was okay too. In series 7 as well. Sure the character could be a bit annoying but she was written that way (and it made sense from the point of view of the story)... Besides Kryten got a bit annoying in series 7 as well, although I actually preferred it on the rewatches.

    As for her role in new series, I guess my opinion is between the extremes here. If there's just the one series, I think her role should be kept to a minimum, perhaps appearing in the last two episodes. I'd like to see just the original boys working together and 'the search for Kochanski' being the overall arc for that series. If we have two more series (yes I'm jumping the gun a bit, I know) I wouldn't mind her being a permanent character in the last.
     
  20. AlternityOrange

    AlternityOrange Skutter

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    It is good, but as someone whose girlfriend has made me watch Moulin Rouge at least once a week for months, I can easily point out the transitions. I'm not a rager against CG though, I'm just really tiring of Moulin Rouge.
     

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