New Dave Series - Guesswork and Rumours

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Andrew, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Yes, hence why I said "in some form".

    It's re-use in Batman form for Epideme could have just about passed muster as a nudge to a previous episode or at worst written off as Lister using the same corny chat-up line whenever he wants to coerce a woman into bed. It's re-appearence in Pete Part 1 though, this time spoken by Hollister quoting Ackerman can't reasonably be said to be either of the former and just seems like lazy rehashing of material because Doug felt there was still some tea left to be squeezed out of that particular bag. All of which returns me to my original point about series 8, which may as well have carried the subtitle: One Joke Too Far.

    I'm hoping a 9 year gap has filled Doug with some fresh humour and ideas.
     
  2. aceduder

    aceduder Catering Officer

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    Behind you!!! Ha Ha made you look!
    The original Rimmer returns from his jaunt as Ace, stating that he got bored with the role of being saviour of the universe and has passed the torch on to another Rimmer and regales the crew with tales of his daring exploits!
    The guys later find out that he only actually lasted a week, he gave up after a run in with a mad accountant called Keith who gave him a particularly vicious chinese burn! He then passed the torch on to the next Rimmer that he could find and returned to his own universe, however due to his inept navigations skills it has taken him years to track down Red Dwarf!!!!
     
  3. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    A) It's hair. It's not fecal matter or anything else. It's hair.

    And

    B) What is all this "cross-the-line" crap? This IS Red Dwarf afterall. Certainly a large part of its charm comes from certain scenes being a bit over the top! In "Waiting for god" when lister put his lips to the glass and left a streak of phlegm: hilarious. Getting kissed by zombie-ish woman in "Epideme": Man did I laugh. Just like I laugh at the over-the-top gore scenes in Evil Dead. Now "Krytie TV" didn't really cross the line at all for me, I just wasn't a big fan of the episode in general.

    Whoever said "We all have our lines" is right. But still. I let my former coworker borrow Series 1 of RD, after he was wondering why I went on about it so much. I asked him how he liked it. You know what he said? "I only watched the first episode. I liked it up to the point of 'the cat'." And I said, "what do you mean?" and he said "The cat was just too much for me. I could accept the 3 million years going by and everything, but a man that is really a cat? I don't think so." To which I said to him "[if you have that low of a threshold, then] you really shouldn't watch another episode again."

    But really, this discussion is surrounding HAIR?!?! That's the line that's been crossed?! It's not a severed hand (Inquisitor), it's not a human chicken leg (Tikka to Ride), It's not body parts falling into mouths (Epideme)...

    Honestly I found the cannibalism in "Tikka to Ride" the most disconcerting.
     
  4. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    "Argument" is an ambiguous word. When I said "The point We are arguing" I wasn't talking about me and you, I was talking about me and the other poster who shared my views. I also meant arguing as in "to argue ones point of view" rather than "to have a blazing argument".


    I don't think that's a useful analogy at all. Unlike your South Park example the tone in series 8 did change in a very meaningful way which is why a large number of people detested it and felt it resembled a naff 80's sitcom with a Space setting. This is about way more than the decision to show pubes or not show them and I've already provided you with other examples from the series that I felt were totally uncecessary and which instead of providing what DJJ would call "another Woofer" just made me cringe even further into my chair. Nearly every joke was overplayed, nearly every scene was that little bit too long (take the Blue Midget dance as a non-toilet humour example of this).
    The necessity Doug and his co-writers apparently felt to cram the show full of purile humour that would have been more at home in an episode of Kevin and Perry is unexplainable to me, especially in light of Back to Earth which managed to be all the things I love about RD. In contrast with Series 8, the characters were overwritten, at times cringe inducing parodies of their former selves or morphing into completely different ones with Only the Good practically being a full blown Panto!
    I'm quite aware that there are people who disagree, one only needs to look at Series 8 on youtube and read some of the comments calling it the "best season"...its quite mind blowing.
    Series 7 was disappointing to me after the first 3 episodes but it at least felt like the show I'd watched for over a decade. Series 8 though, no that's Red Dwarf in name only to me.
    It does have its funny bits but I can't help wonder how much better it would have been with only six episodes and a more limited budget. In that sense moving to Dave might be a blessing in disguise.

    No, the discussion is not about "hair" its about the show knowing when the optimum time to stop with one joke and move onto another is. In the scene you mention the optimum time to stop would have been after the audiance laughter reached its peak and entered a burst of applause which is precisely the moment Lister, facing AWAY from the camera unzips his fly and snips the scissors. Instead it labours on and the applause turns to groans of disgust and embarrased sounding chuckling as he begins sprinkling pubes around the room...actually I tell a lie, one solitary person claps a lonely clap. Presumably he's the same ONE chap that the writer felt absolutely wouldn't get the joke unless it was shoved in our face.
     
  5. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    lol. Now I see your point. For me though it (over-milking the joke) came as early on as Rimmer's "extended salute". Unfortunately that's a good example on how feeding off a live audience can hurt the show. It just goes on for TOO long. Other times, I think the feedback the actors got off the audience help their performance, though. (I know we weren't talking about the live audience, but I'm just saying).

    The overmilking that goes on in general in Season 8 (ok, really mostly "Back in the RED") hurts it. Before season 8 there were no three-parters (or even two-parters). The show was tightly edited, fast paced and jam packed with a lot going on in each episode. Those episodes were the best. I'm on board with what other people have said when they said, let's have all standalone episodes this season. No two or three parters!
     
  6. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Yes that's another good example as is the "Smeg off you smegging smegging smeggy little smegger". Well done with that line Doug, you just became a parody of yourself and gave that irritating talking head from channel 4's 100 greatest comedy shows even more justification to his apallingly narrow assement of the show.

    Remembering all these things is suddenly making me nervous for the prospect of a new show again. Before Back to Earth I just wanted Doug to finish the show so it wasn't left on a cliffhanger and was accepting of the fact that the ending probably wasn't going to be very good. After Back to Earth though I was really excited at the prospect of more Red Dwarf. I just hope Doug can keep his return to form going and not slide back into the stretched out parody of series 8.
     
  7. stephypops

    stephypops Catering Officer

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    I love the way your impromptu quote from series 7 here has tried to lighten the tone in this thread, it was getting way to indepth and I wasn't sure where it was going to end...!
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    to clarify I don't want to see any more "atrocious toilet humour visual gags like the pubes on soap, period and Archie stuff from series 8" the key word being "atrocious" however I don't agree that Red Dwarf has ever revolved around that sort of humour as Series 8 did. The fact that all of these gags were a consequence of "series 8's dumbed down style of delivery" means that without the latter we hopefully won't have the former in any new show.
     
  9. jd05uk

    jd05uk Third Technician

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    Who thinks that when Kochanski fled the ship she was pregnant and she did not want Lister who was at the time of fleeing a complete bum and not wanting them to see their Dad as a bad role model? This event could build up to a grand finale some time in the future where the family unit gets back to earth once and for all.
     
  10. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I didn't think of that, but that's good thinking!
     
  11. archie918

    archie918 Second Technician

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    Please, no monster-a-minute smeg like in Series 5, that for me was even more torturous than all the Archie etc. stuff. While I would like to see a return of Ace Rimmer and Duane Dibley, I would also like NEW IDEAS. Hopefully Doug has come up with some good ideas in the last decade and a half. Please, also no smegging cliffhanger, I felt like smashing the TV at the end of Only The Good. (yes I know they had Red Dwarf destroying archaeological things and a discussion about insurance or taxes or something but ran out of money). My last wish, please don't reboot it for newer viewers and have a lot of back references.
     
  12. southdowns

    southdowns Skutter

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    I'll put my 2 Dollarpounds in...

    * The SCRIPT is the key. All the talk of CGI and effects are meaningless without a funny, witty script for each episode. I would prefer Doug to write all six.

    * Keep it down to 6 Episodes to maintain quality. Since it's on commercial TV (why on earth did the Beeb not want RD? Insane IMO) each episode should be 45 mins with adverts to round it up to 1 hr.

    * Each episode should be individual - the "thread" theme, i.e. trying to catch up with the ship, didn't really work too well.

    * Base the majority of episodes around Red Dwarf - the mining ship, remember? lol.

    * Let's move on from Ace Rimmer and Dwayne Dibbley. They were great, but I would like to see new guest characters.

    * My personal preference is to being back Hattie as Holly. I think NL has burned his bridges with comments on BTE. Shame.
    - But there is scope here for a 'new' Holly if Doug wishes.
     
  13. Idkfa

    Idkfa Skutter

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    Peterson. I want to see Peterson in an episode. I want "exorcist sick".

    And since they actually have some better CGI, I kinda want to see the end of Better Than Life (the book) shot in real life. Lister getting stuck on a frozen planet, riding cockroaches, then dying and getting sent back to the backwards dimension. That would be keen.

    Plus why not 8 episodes or more? Why do all UK shows only do 6? In the US they are at least 13-22 episodes for a season.
     
  14. The_Nimon1

    The_Nimon1 Third Technician

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    It'd be cool if they had an episode where the crew find Ackerman:-D
     
  15. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    To be fair, US shows have a team of writers, while in the UK there's only one to three.
     
  16. stephypops

    stephypops Catering Officer

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    Additionally, I think you would wear out every eventuality as far as stories goes in one or two seasons if you had 22 episodes. It was different in Friends for example because there were more characters and a way way bigger budget and fan base. You need to remember that with Red Dwarf, after each series they didnt' know if they would get the go ahead to do more.
     
  17. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    There is so many add breaks in america that the shows are only about 20 minutes as well.
     
  18. stephypops

    stephypops Catering Officer

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    Which is again another reason for their huge budget - fees from advertising and sponsorship deals! :-)
     
  19. stephypops

    stephypops Catering Officer

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    Agreed. 8)
     
  20. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    A Rocky Montage? Well OK, but I really don't remember much boxing in RD...
     

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