New Dave Series - Guesswork and Rumours

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Andrew, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    No. Not with IDW. For all sorts of reasons - it's another writer's draft, so GNP'd have to pay for it a second time to use it (them's the rules); it was rewritten since the draft used on the DVD by ANOTHER guest writer; the series has moved on in style and tone since Series VII; Doug's not really a writer to look back, he has too many ideas to want to stop and re-investigate one that got dropped...

    My personal opinion, also, is that IDW is a fascinating mis-step. It's not actually a story that 'works'.

    For me, it doesn't work as a Cat story. Not the Cat we know and love. It's a little too generic, a little too Trek. The cat species isn't investigated at all, making Aura (a Cat with a name rather than a title, also wrong-feeling) just 'the female of whatever race you come from'. The cat history has Lister as God, it has creationist versus evolution allegory coming out of its ears, it has the potential for fascinating characters. What do we get? A confident and capable female. Not a very original character.

    The ep has some interesting ideas, but never really finds a comic set-piece that really sings. And with such a big setting, that's a huge omission. (Even Duct Soup - the supposedly small story - found some of those.) I also don't much care for the ease by which Cat's mate is found - the moment he needs one, which is odd given how long we've been waiting to see one - nor the suggestion that the universe is now massively populated. By GELFs of all kinds, sure, but it suggests a busy universe. Even the Kinitawowi seemed like a small, limited group.

    Oh, and it needed a B-plot, really. Something Lister and Rimmer-y, to off-set how odd the episode was feeling with them marginalised. (Even the so-called Holly episodes - Queeg and White Hole - are as much based around by Lister/Rimmer conflicts.)

    But that's all just me. I'm sure if Doug fancied reviving it, none of what I've said here would matter. But then I'm also sure it wouldn't be revived...or it is was, it'd be rewritten to the point of being unrecognisable.
     
  2. telegramsam

    telegramsam First Technician

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    I hope it's not a rush-job. I'd rather wait a bit longer and get a quality series than have something sooner that's lousy.

    I would like to see Holly return, but I don't mind if it's a different actor. I'd kind of like to see Hattie again if they can get her, but if they could find someone else that's funny I wouldn't complain.

    No more squids or dibbleys though, definitely. I like Duane Dibbley but they've pretty much exhausted that gag.

    And while we're putting in our orders, I would like a graphic novel or something on the side. :P
     
  3. Garry2rs

    Garry2rs Third Technician

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    Fair Enough!
    Thank you Andrew for the concise reply.
     
  4. Derek_Vader

    Derek_Vader Skutter

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  5. backtoreality

    backtoreality Supply Officer

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    Sensational
    great work Certin
    :-D
     
  6. currymonster

    currymonster First Technician

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    HA, Rob is being all secretive on twitter

    'Have to delay the carpool announcement for a few days. All good news but can't reveal just yet.'

    Was just coming here to speculate and Craig lets the cat out the bag haha
     
  7. Whizzkid

    Whizzkid Catering Officer

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    It's just been announced by Craig Charles that there is going to be another new adventure of the Boys from the Dwarf. There is more info on this forum which I found from Digital Spy:

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1270903

    What can we expect next from this special and how long will it be?
     
  8. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Charlie, the last bunch of posts were all about that!

    Oh never mind. No doubt you were excited and posted quickly into the thread. Which, frankly is understandable. (Not meant in a patronising tone.)

    Thanks for linking to that thread. I found some of the comments annoying (Rob real talent,... BtE bad...etc) but hey we've all got different tastes.
     
  9. LazarusLong

    LazarusLong Skutter

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    Well, Sky's never miss service has the new series 10 as an available reminder for broadcast 2010/2011. Of course that reminder was set immediately!
     
  10. Sunnybrand

    Sunnybrand Skutter

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    I agree with everything else you wrote, but this bit's where you lose me. Its the glossy CGI and Doug Naylor's want to make everything cutting edge and modern that sent Red Dwarf down hill in the first place. Red Dwarf is a cult classic and always will be, and should be treated as such. The reason I enjoy the earlier shows so much is because of their nostalgic low budget atmosphere. By Series 6 the shows style peaked. Seven worked for a while, but Kochanski pissed me off. I think the only thing to get better from 6 was Kryten.

    That is why so many shows like this fail. Doug Naylor has built up a Red Dwarf fan base who love it for what it is, but he cant stop trying to improve it or change its direction. Everybody was happy with the direction it was heading before series 7, and the changes just make me not want to watch.

    If the show went back to random adventures as they chase Red Dwarf and waste time in space I'd be over the moon. If Naylor fills it with the sh*t that made up Back To Earth I'll shoot myself. No more long story arcs and tacky cgi, no more crew from prior Stasis; just situation comedy in space, with some of that b-grade sci-fi goodness from series 6.
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I really don't think it was.

    There are weaknesses in some of the later CGI it's true (not including BtE. I thought the CGI in that was pretty spectacular. I do get the impression some people see 'rubbish' just because it's CGI though, not that I'm accusing you) but I don't think that they were the largest weaknesses of later series. It's not as if some of the physical stuff in the earlier series didn't look a bit ropey too. (I don't include the model affects in this. They were pretty great overall.)

    Mind you, I'm quite forgiving of dodgy effects. They add to the humour for me. I will say they were never rarely intentional, except with things like the Holly Hop drive and the original form of the polymorph which was intentionally created for laughs (pre CGI by the way. And the polymorph's final slimy form, while a bit dated now, is actually pretty horrific!) but unintentional makes it all the more funny for me. (Doug Naylor's mention of the rubbish foam crocodile in the series 7 commentary made me laugh for example.)

    I think it was mainly the change in direction in terms of losing Rimmer in part of Season 7 and the change of circumstance and the more silly humour of 8 which annoyed people more than CGI effects. On the other hands other people actually liked that stuff too, so downhill for some is level or even uphill for others. I quite liked series 7. I didn't dislike series 8 and BtE actually divided me, in that some bits I found a bit dodgy, but other parts were the best Red Dwarf ever. And most of that was stuff in the story, not the effects.
     
  12. Sunnybrand

    Sunnybrand Skutter

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    I understand where you're coming from, and guess I agree, but I just don't think Doug Naylor could pull it off. As much as I love him for Red Dwarf, I don't think he could go too far beyond low-budget cult comedy. Perhaps if he took inspiration from a show like The Mighty Boosh, which seems to have that nostalgic atmosphere and cult charm early Red Dwarf has.

    I'd love to see a new Red Dwarf taking on a new direction and bringing the smeg with it, but I think Doug Naylor needs a partner. I don't think the show declined because Rob Grant left, but there is no denying the drop in quality. Shows always seem to work well when there are two creative minds that think alike at the top.

    No matter which way it goes, as with Back to Earth (which I thought was pretty god-awful) I'm stoked for it to come out. The rest of this years gunna drag...
     
  13. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Can I ask what you thought about the scene with Kochanski? Does that fall under your "God-awful" description? For me that was one of the highlights of the whole of Red Dwarf and although I found parts of BTE ropey is something that consistently makes me love the special in a way I'm not sure I would have if Doug had gone with the original plan for the ending.

    For me its not just the moment where a tired Dave Lister regains a sense of purpose its the potential jump start (not with jump leads from Starbug) for a whole new emotional core to the show.
     
  14. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Pretty much my reaction. That bit was a highlight for me and somehow made the rest okay too. Mostly.

    Interestingly I wasn't sure of Bladerunner when I first saw it, although I pretty much like it all the way through now. However, it was that scene between Roy Batty and Deckard right at the end which originally made the film for me. It wasn't quite the same as Lister's scene (and there were other parts of BtE I liked) but it's curious how one stand out scene will really increase one's estimation of the whole.
     
  15. Sunnybrand

    Sunnybrand Skutter

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    I'm not sure the scene was stand-out in terms of writing. If anything it was a little sappy, although Craig Charles performance in it was quite good. I don't think linking the special to Blade Runner was a very good move. I consequently found the whole thing cliched and corny (which wasn't helped by the lame jokes and awful Russian character).
    I see where you are coming from with the emotional angle, and it would work well as a way to jumpstart the show again, so long as it works as a driving point for Lister and that alone. I don't want Kochanski in the main cast - she was much better as a writing tool than a character, and the Scottish bird was less annoying.

    I realize I've been nitpicking at things like CGI, and while I do think employing it changes the atmosphere (not for the better), the specials and latter series faults do fall mostly on the scripts. It'll be interesting to see the crew Naylor gets on board
     
  16. skinpupgrasper

    skinpupgrasper Skutter

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    Im really excited for this, i just hope it goes back to the roots of the show. that being 6 23min eps not 3 crappy specials that make up a TV movie with a extremely predictable plot.

    I think the thing that ruined back to earth for me was the OTT CGI it really took away the feeling of the show.

    anyway to the new series mega excited. hope they bring krissy back she was one of my fav charecters and lets face it with out her RD is a sausage fest lmao!

    i'de like to see a cat episode he really is an awesome charecter! also bring back hatty haybridge she has to be my fav holly shes so ditzy but norman wud be just as good!!

    i really hope the series comes for Xmas rather than having to wait till next year of even the year after next.

    my only beef at the minute is the fact that it will most likely have adverts in it which will really ruin it.
     
  17. OzTORDFC

    OzTORDFC Catering Officer Fan Club Team

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    I really liked BTE, and am REALLY excited about a new series (or two!). I realize that the characters will have needed to grow and develop (not just mentally and emotionally but physically ;-) ), which is one of the reasons I didn't have an issue with characters in BTE.

    I just hope that being in Australia, I won't have to wait ages after those in the UK get to see it!!!!
     
  18. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i dont know why so many people mention the CGI like it ruins the shows look and feel, i mean in the early shows there were some really nice effects for its time but no one complains oh i hated that blue orb effect from holoship as it really made the show to glossy, and not only that but back to reality and gunmen of the apocolapes are 2 of the favorites among fans and yet i wouldnt say the effects in neither were bad, infact they were pretty good

    but... saying that i think for me the models effects are much missed

    oh yeah and i was quite impressed by the CGI scutters from BTE which was amazingly realistic
     
  19. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    It's the nature of those effects, Talkie. They are cool and worked. Holoship was a ship of light. The blue orb is appropriate and looked perfectly in place because the tangibility of a holoship is not one that our brain can process anyway because it is such a fantastically trippy notion.

    A mechanical scutter however is totally different. The machine in the original series looked like machines. They looked like they were actually IN the scene. They moved like machines do, not super smooth computer generated animation.

    The truth of the matter is CGI DOES ruin the look of movies and TV shows. It DOES compromise the suspension of disbelief. The crazy thing about it for me is that it should only be used because it's cheaper than building models. And considering RD's limited budget, it makes sense.

    What doesn't make sense are those crazy Hollywood movies that cost $200 million to produce and all the crazy visuals in the movie are CGI.
     
  20. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Rubbish.

    CGI when used properly can add so much to a movie. The Lord of The Rings trilogy used CGI brilliantly with models and live action to make some amazing effects (ok there were one or two dodgy shots but 99% was amazing). I would say that even though it is dated Jurrasic Park had some fantastic CGI effects too. And of course the Pixar films - entirely CGI, entirely fantastic.

    There are plenty of examples of CGI being used badly and it can ruin a movie but just because a movie uses CGI doesn't mean it will be rubbish.
     

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