NO Holly in Dwarf x

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by RECTUMfacedPYGMY, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. RECTUMfacedPYGMY

    RECTUMfacedPYGMY Catering Officer

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    I just feel now that if they had got Normen lovett back for for the new series it would have made it a lot better, there back on the Dwarf so he should be there, its a shame, why couldnt Doug get him back??:crying:
     
  2. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Some would say that Norman only has himself to blame but I agree it`s a shame.

    I guess Doug just wasn`t that keen on having Dwarf in the show anyway as he commented at the convention last year that he could use Hattie if he wanted to include the character.
     
  3. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    if doug asked norman to return chances are norman would have said no because he seems to be in that im done with red dwarf and im releasing my new book phase

    but i think the reason why doug hasn't brought hattie back is because he hoping norman will change his mind
     
  4. themec666

    themec666 Skutter

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    its not the same without Holly. i miss that IQ of 6
     
  5. MacabreMagpie

    MacabreMagpie Catering Officer

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    I'm not sure I agree that Holly is required because Kryten does all the exposition now and there's not many stories you can write for a disembodied computer head. Holly in series 8 was pretty redundant.
     
  6. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    how senile was holly actually? I ask because although he appeared stupid, it seemed more like he "went a bit peculiar to tell you the truth" rather than went stupid. He invented the Holly Hop drive, he devised complex jokes such as queeg, he created nanobots that could ressurect the dead and he kept lister sane very well with his plan to force him to stay with Rimmer rather than a mate or Kochanski, or even herman gerring. i felt that they didnt actualy really bring the scenile thing into it until holly was female, using the quote from the queeg episode that he was computer senile.
     
  7. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    I see people say this all the time, and frankly, it's a pretty weak argument. It also happens to be exact phrase Grant/Naylor used back in the day when explaining why Holly had been removed from the show in the first place. I wonder if people just parrot what the writers once said in an attempt to rationalize the character's absence, without really thinking about it.

    Holly is an integral part of the Red Dwarf posse. The deadpan humor and "big brother" omnipresence is what made the character great, not his/her expositional qualities.
     
  8. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    It is true that Holly was redundant in Series VIII but I think that had a lot to do with the prison setting and having so many characters. With dozens of actors there just wasn`t enough screen time for them all.

    I think Norman`s version of Holly could have a useful place in the show. In those first 2 series he had a lot of really good conversations with Lister such as the Norweb gag and the dogs` milk. There`s no real reason why he couldn`t do those kind of jokes again.
     
  9. Jo TORDFC

    Jo TORDFC Second Officer Fan Club Team

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    The first two series? Those would be the two series in which Kryten was not a regular character... Also, I don't know if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying there, but Norman didn't write his own jokes.

    Personally, I much prefer Hattie's version of Holly.
     
  10. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    Holly was pretty redundant in series 5 as well. The lack of lines is the reason why they decided to get rid of the character in the first place.
     
  11. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    Holly was pretty redundant in series 5 as well. The lack of lines is the reason why they decided to get rid of the character in the first place.
     
  12. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    Holly was pretty redundant in series 5 as well. The lack of lines is the reason why they decided to get rid of the character in the first place.
     
  13. Cruel Slayer

    Cruel Slayer Console Officer

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    I feel you've got a good point. Holly could still have a place in the crew. Although, bear in mind that if the writers were finding it difficult to write for Holly, that in itself is good reason to have removed the character. However, as has been said before, a reworked Holly who might sometimes clash with Kryten could still work well.
     
  14. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Of course Kryten wasn`t a regular in those first two series. But a lot of those conversations between Holly and Lister could have occurred even if Kryten had been there. As I mentioned, the dogs` milk and Norweb gags but also things like the Holly Hop Drive, falling in love with a Sinclair etc.

    I`m aware that Norman didn`t write his own jokes but my gut feeling is that if he`d remained with the show that the role of Holly, despite Kryten taking on much of the exposition, wouldn`t have become quite as small as it did. As others have said, Rob and Doug seemed to have a real problem writing for the female Holly and thus the role became smaller and smaller. Series 3, which was written with Norman in mind, contained a lot more Holly than Series V for example.
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I didn't think Holly created the Nanobots, I thought they were supposed to be Holly's own Nanobots.

    @ peas_and_corn, such a good point you had to make it three times? ;-)
     
  16. GoBronson

    GoBronson Skutter

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    I loved Norm, I loved Hattie, I even loved a little bit of Queeg, but I think as much as I love them, the show can survive without any or all of them! It seems to be that Red Dwarf is just one of those shows that works best with the least amount of characters - the more you throw in, the thinner it gets!

    Having said that though, I think there could always be room for a Holly of some kind now that the format has returned to "normal" - it actually feels a little strange not to see one!

    I wouldn't be surprised if one of them makes a guest appearance at some point, but I would like to see Bill Bailey give it a shot for sure...nothing ventured...
     
  17. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    Can I point out a couple of things that have been posted here that the pedantic in me won't let go?

    1. The nanobots were Kryten's weren't they? Nothing to do with Holly what so ever. (although I will allow myself to be corrected on this....my memory is suffering badly of late)

    2. Where has Doug ever expressed that he is not bringing Hattie in as he is waiting for Norman to change his mind? After listening to the BtE directors commentary, I am not left with this impression at all!

    If Holly were to be re-introduced, great. If not, so what. Personally, I would prefer to see Hattie return if the character does come back. This has more to do with her off screen persona when compared to Norm's off screen persona than the on screen portrayals of the character. In my opinion, Norman was great in the first 2 Seasons. The he caused problems and was replaced...But then he returned in VIII and the character barely raised a titter from me. Add to that the toy throwing for BtE...I don't think he deserves to be offered the gig again!

    Hattie did a good job as far as I'm concerned. But her presence at Dimension Jumps, her enthusiasm for the show, her all round nice person aura...Yeah. Give me Hattie any day.

    And if anyone tries to post about how unfairly Norm was treated for BtE and hasn't also listened to Doug's version of events on the BtE directors commentary, I will pre-emptively say "Go away!"
     
  18. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Has anyone stated that?
     
  19. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    He could write for norm but have hattie - as people said here it worked in series 3
     
  20. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    Yes.

    But as I stated when I posted....the pedantic in me made me make a post when normally I wouldn't have. I'm not having a go or a dig...

    When I started my respose, there were another 2 or 3 points I was going to kmake that, upon looking agin to respond to, I had actually just misread something.
     

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