norman lovett not changing his mind

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,935
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    I wouldn't say that's a fact. I'd agree that 2-6 comprise the best of Red Dwarf, but that's just my opinion. I actually think seven is up there too, but I accept I might be in the minority there.

    He might have thought that he thought Rob Grant was the senior/main writer due to the fact he was the more outgoing of the two, but he says nothing implying Doug Naylor being less creative.
     
  2. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

    Messages:
    352
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Location:
    Bromley/London

    Well he says "We were wrong, doug is actually a creator too"... I don't mean to say he really thought Doug contributed nothing, but it seems like the feeling was he was the weaker half.
     
  3. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

    Messages:
    73
    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Southern California, USA
    No way, 7 is way up there for me. 5 and 7 are at the top of my list, for different reasons. I think with 7 Doug proved he can be absolutely fantastic without Rob.

    As far as Holly goes... Really sad to hear this from Norman. Norman IS Holly as far as I'm concerned. If he's not coming back, I'd rather they retire the character altogether than put someone else in the chair.
     
  4. backtoreality

    backtoreality Supply Officer

    Messages:
    622
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Here's a good radio interview with Norman Lovett and Mark & Nina back in September 2010. It's worth a listen in full but if you skip to 15.20 Norman says why he got annoyed with it all. The interview shows two sides of his interest in Red Dwarf cause at the start he talks fondly about a Red Dwarf signing he had just done...


    http://soundcloud.com/markandninahfm/normanlovett
     
  5. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,877
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Am I the only one who can't listen to local radio stations such as this one without thinking of Alan Partridge's Mid Morning Matters? The way they interupted Norman with a jingle for the news is almost the same as when Alan cuts off a caller to do the traffic and travel. :-)

    I've never doubted that Norman is fond of Red Dwarf and his involvement in it, it seems always to be certain unidentified people at GNP he has a problem with. If his version of events surrounding BtE are true though then I can sympathise with him. It can't be nice to feel you are on the periphery of people's thoughts when, like Norman, you feel (justifiably) that you played an inegral part of the shows early success.

    I would imagine that its simply carelessness or lack of consideration on GNP's part that they failed to keep him up to date rather than anything malicious but at the same time I bet nobody else from the original cast had to hang around for months waiting to be told whether or not they were going to be in the show.
     
  6. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

    Messages:
    12,931
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2001
    Quite a fascinating interview. Of all the Red Dwarf actors he's the one I find the most entertaining and has the most interesting things to say. I just wish he'd hurry up and get his autobiography published.

    One day I'll have to get round to purchasing the DVD that he was plugging. I've seen precious little of Norman's stand up act, and the brief snatch of it I saw (on one of the Smeg Ups videos I think) didn't seem too promising, but I'd still like to see more.
     
  7. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,404
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle UK
    Norman Lovett is half Italian. ahh! "That explains everything"
     
  8. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    I think the only difference between Norman's version of events and the version that Doug gives in the DVD commentary is the method of communication. Norman says that he sent emails whereas Doug says that Norman made a phone call.

    Either way, I think GNP could have handled things better as if Doug had called Norman instead and kept him up to date with things then I doubt the relationship would have broken down as it did. Not that I'm saying that Norman has handled things in the right way since then either...

    Looking at Back to Earth, I think that if Doug had considered Holly to be an integral part of the show then he certainly could have included the character but Holly clearly did become peripheral a long time ago...
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,877
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    I guess what I find interesting is that even when the discussion is centred around Doug as it is with Chris Barrie in this interview, Norman always seems at pains not to refer to Doug by name but just to to mention his falling out is with "the Red Dwarf people" or "Grant Naylor". I wonder then is it Doug the person his grievance ultimately lies with?

    When the other cast members talk about Doug it seems they do so regarding him as much a friend as a colleague yet with Norman there always seems more distance...like he somehow treats GNP more as someone he works for rather than an extended family.
     
  10. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Location:
    Red Dwarf, Deep space
     
  11. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Which makes absolute sense because it is just a job for him after all. He has been in and out of the show and it is a different situation from the 4 main cast members. They know that they have a job for as long as the show continues and Chris had the luxury of picking and choosing when he left and returned to the show.

    Norman spent a massive chunk of time away from the show and so isn't likely to feel the same warmth for the people involved.
     
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,877
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
     
  13. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    I could understand if Norman felt very differently. While Rob and Doug did create the character of Holly, it was only intended to be a voice-over. So I think Norman could have every right to feel that he had contributed a massive amount to the show and to the character.

    As there were only 4 characters at that point and Holly was much more important than he/she later became, I doubt whether Norman saw Holly as being, 'replaceable and redefineable'.

    Plus Holly in Series III was pretty much identical to the first 2 series really.

    But if Rob and Doug didn't give him any assurances at all then you couldn't blame them for bringing Hattie back as it was the obvious thing to do.
     
  14. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    7,214
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    What a bitter, hideous old crone. “oooh the way they’ve treated me” NORM, you wouldn’t be sat there NOW if it wasn’t for Grant Naylor and Red Dwarf. No one would be buying your so called book if it wasn’t for Rob and Doug.

    Who does he think he is???!
     
  15. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,120
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Location:
    Red Dwarf, Deep space
    a big hollywood movie star who took a low salary to be part of our amazing tv show :-)
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,877
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    It's been awhile since I watched it to compare but I always felt the two were written quite differently. As someone said on here recently, with Norman's Holly you get the idea that alot of the time he's just mucking about and amusing himself ala Queeg but that really, when it comes down to it he's actually the smartest guy in the room by quite a long way (I know that isn't saying alot, but still...).

    With female Holly I always felt she was the exact ditzy, computer senile, AI that the others take her to be. About the only exception to this for me is Back to Reality where she genuinelly saves the day.

    To this extent, Holly and Hilly could just as easily have swapped ships in the intervening period between series 2 and 3 and that's what I meant by the character being easily replaced. It's not that Norman wasn't a great character, it's more that the character of Holly could easily have been swapped for another ship AI without masively changing the dynamic of the show in the way replacing Lister would be or the way the dynamic really did change in series 7 with the replacement of Rimmer with an entirely different character.
     
  17. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    I think I'm right in saying that the scripts to Series III had already been written when Norman left.
     
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

    Messages:
    1,665
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    You are. (Most of them, at least - but not The Last Day, where I think the first major difference become noticeable.)
     
  19. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    7,214
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Hmm no offence but you know nothing about TV!!! What would be the point in Doug constantly ringing Norman saying “hey, still not got any money but hang in there” over and over – that would have just annoyed him even more.

    The most important thing about a TV production being made is MONEY! Why would Doug keep calling the cast without knowing about the budget first?

    Norman is being an idiot thinking he is bigger than the show... he isn’t! The same thing Chris Barrie did back in 1997. Some actors are the most irritating creatures on the planet because they get massive highs and ego boosts from everyone and hate it when it doesn’t go there way!!!
     
  20. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,877
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    As I understand it from watching this interview, Norman isn't complaining that he wasn't kept informed every step of the way (although to be honest I have a hard time believing that the other four wern't - at least to some degree) but that ultimately on the eve of production with scripts completed it was left to him to get in touch and say "I take it I'm not in it then?". Surely by the time the final script was put in place it would have been common courtesy to have already called Norman and said, "Sorry, I know we initially asked you to keep your schedule free but we havn't the budget/time to include your character".

    Instead, imagine being Norman and hearing interviews with the others gearing up/tweeting and generally being excited about something they knew they were a part of while he sat there, feeling largely forgotten with everyone asking him about Red Dwarf's comeback and him not being able to answer. It's easy to see why that can lead to bitterness.

    Maybe if Red Dwarf were "just a another job" to Norman it wouldn't have hurt him so much when the people behind the show apparently treat him like "just another actor".
     

Share This Page