norman lovett not changing his mind

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    I think you need a rest...:shock:

    I didn't say that Doug should have constantly called Norman at all. I didn't even come close to saying that. I suggested that if he had called Norman once when the first script was written to explain the situation that it might have helped things. Now for all I know he was about to do that when the call from Norman came in.

    Sorry but you are just ranting now. If Chris wasn't enjoying working on Dwarf then why shouldn't he have chosen to leave? That goes for any other actor or writer (eg. Rob Grant) on any show.

    I don't think Norman does think he is bigger than the show. That doesn't even make sense. He obviously made a big mistake in leaving the show after Series 2 and he does and should take a lot of the responsibility for that. He has also said and done some foolish things over the past couple of years. But he's not deserving of some of the nonsensical insults that people have thrown at him via the safety of their keyboards.
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Except that's not what happened. Unless you're saying Doug's outright lying.
     
  3. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  4. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    Not sure what point you are making here. Sure many Dwarf fans would buy his book. But that doesn't mean that Norman thinks he is bigger than the show...
     
  5. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i was more getting at when you said "But he's not deserving of some of the nonsensical insults that people have thrown at him via the safety of their keyboards."
     
  6. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    Not only were the scripts in the working stages, but Doug still didn't know if he could do it as a 3 parter or not. The whole inclusion of Holly hinged on Doug being able to get the planned 2 part story extended into a 3 part story. Yes, he got the green light on the 3 parter, but not before Norman spat his dummy out. Admittedly, this was very late on and Norman probably did feel as though he was being strung along. But the hold up was with Dave, not Doug. A lot of things about our 2009 Easter weekend Red Dwarf event was changed literally weeks before the shows were actually broadcast.

    That's one of the things I'm grateful about with Red Dwarf X. Hopefully the more time for both pre-production and post-production will benefit the show.
     
  7. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    Indeed and it's at that point that a call to Norman could have been made perhaps. If Doug had said to Norman what he said on the DVD commentary then I doubt that things would have blown up as they did.
     
  8. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    If people think it's wrong for Norman to write a book then that's fine. But plenty of people, not necessarily on this forum, have insulted Norman using every 4 letter word imaginable and have also mocked his every move. Yet they still try to take the moral high ground.

    If the people who've known Norman for a long time like Chris and Hattie don't have too much of a problem with him then surely he can't be that all that bad...
     
  9. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    But by this point, Norman had already gone public, swearing online that he would never work for GNP again and spouting stories about how unfairly he had been treated. He had demanded to know before the day was through if he was going to be in it. Before that day was through, Doug wasn't in any position to say whether he was or wasn't.

    I'm sure that had something else come up, a gig or something like that, he could have contacted Doug and said so and they come to some sort of agreement about working around it if need be. We've seen Doug altering things to try and work around the actors schedules.....Wasn't Bobby Llew scheduled to miss the first bit of BtE filming due to other work commitments? (I may be remembering this wrong mind!)
     
  10. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    Sorry, that's not what I meant. What I meant was that when Doug basically knew that Norman wouldn't be in a two-parter but would be in a three-parter if it happened then he could have relayed that info. If he'd called and said what he did on the DVD about definitely including Norman if the budget and the time allowed then it might have helped things.
     
  11. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    "lo fa? in che modo?"
     
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I should think its fairly obvious that I'm not saying anything about Doug's opinion on the matter, but rather commenting on Norman's stated version of events in the video linked to. If you wish to shed light on some contrary opinion held by Doug I'm more than happy to hear it.

    My copy of the BTE DVD is in another country right now and so I'm not able to listen to his commentary which, from the comments of others seems to be what you are referring too. As such the only discussion of the events I've heard have been from Norman.

    Whether Norman's comments are accurate or not isn't what I was discussing, I was simply clarifying his comments against anti-everythings characterisation of him as thinking he was "bigger than the show". I havn't seen any evidence that Norman thinks this, rather the whole thing seems to be something which could be solved by two people having a civil, adult conversation instead of talking to and responding to each other indirectly through DVD commentaries and fan Q&As.
     
  13. Cpt_Darling

    Cpt_Darling First Technician

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    I think people are forgetting that the cracks began to appear long before 'BTE' and numerous anti-dwarf comments were made by Norman at various get-togethers and on-line.

    What sticks in a lot of peoples throats is the fact he often claims he wishes to be known for his other talents and will continue to distance himself from Holly/GNP and Red Dwarf, yet once again, we see him at a Red Dwarf get-together, Hmmm.
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    There's nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting to be known for other things or wanting to branch out and move away from something you are tired of being associated with, look at Rob Grant who has done exactly this, albeit as unsuccessfully as Norman in my view.

    I agree with you that, unlike Rob, Norman hasn't helped himself to do this by continuing to sell photos of himself as Holly and make a living attending Red Dwarf related speaking appearances...but then we all need to make a living and for many of us that involves doing what we can be sure will make us money, regardless of whether or not we wish we didn't have to.


    I'm not sure what you mean by "anti-Dwarf" comments. I've never seen Norman state that he dislikes the show or is embarrassed by his time on it, short of him criticising series 8. If doing the latter makes one "anti-dwarf" then I and many other Dwarf fans must be "anti-dwarf" as we tend to agree with Normans synopsis of that series.
     
  15. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    I agree with most of that. Norman has always praised Rob and Doug's writing together calling them a formidable partnership and obviously still rates the first couple of series. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving honest opinions about the later series.

    And yes, Norman has to earn a living and how many income streams does he have? He's obviously tried to do other acting things but none have quite come off which basically leaves him with some stand-up gigs, the occasional voice-over and the conventions.
     
  16. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Norman should be banned from future conventions, afterall he wants nothing more to do with it!!!

    Talk about desperate publicity hunting...
     
  17. dvd3500

    dvd3500 Catering Officer

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    Naw.. he likes the fans it seems...
     
  18. Yule Sleigher

    Yule Sleigher Console Officer

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    Couldn't agree more! Why he thinks he should still be allowed to contribute when he's always saying negative stuff about the show is beyond me.
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Because he very obviously isn't always saying negative stuff about the show...not even in this interview where he has several positive things to say. His views are quite clear, he thinks GNP have treat him badly, he doesn't think series 8 was very good and wasn't a fan of Back to Earth. Given that quite a lot of dwarf fans who've stopped by here have shared one or two of those opinions, ought they be barred from future conventions too?
     
  20. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    this is what norman said in 2009 just before BTE was broadcast

    now even though this was 2 years ago, it just shows you why people are angry as to why he still makes money from red dwarf when he doesnt mind voicing bitterness
     

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