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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by MichaelJRimmer, Aug 14, 2011.
Not sure where talkie toaster or 'kyle' gets his info from
To me Bluey that drill line was exactly as painful to listen too as the line Chloe Annett had in Legion when she had to talk to the wall. "Hello wall" :?
For me, Norman Lovett. His deadpan delivery cracked me up every time. Hattie Hayridge just annoyed me.
It's all subjective apparently. The drill thing was a small groan, but nothing horrendous. Sometimes you enjoy a small groan of a joke... "Hello wall, what do you think?" was a fun bit of sarcasm. It's not supposed to be wit, but an expression of contempt.
I`m sure Norman`s motives were selfish but, at the end of the day, it worked for the show. As Craig Charles said about the first couple of series, `You can tell we all fought for our characters because they are all funny.`
Hattie seems a lovely person but if Norman had stayed (and obviously it`s his own fault that he didn`t) then having him fighting for the character would probably have helped the show. Many of the greatest sitcoms of all time haven`t been hurt by having tensions behind the scenes...
Subjective.. of course, yes.
Expression of contempt yes, I was referring more to the fact the delivery sounded aweful in the same way the delivery of the drill line was terrible and not the joke/reference itself.
Back on topic though, I do think Normans' Holly was great but I do also like Hattie playing the role and one of my favourite Hattie lines would be in Backwards "About lunchime" when being asked 'what time blah blah'.
Was Chloe Annett in Legion? :?:
No, he's thinking of Beyond A Joke from series VII.
Apart from one time when she did this kind of flustered/giggly look and sort of fainted from the sight of Ace. She made me laugh.
Although not as brilliant as Norman Lovett, I thought Hattie Hayridge was an excellent Holly and the female equivalent of Lovett. As others have said the problem was that increasingly from series 3 onwards the exposition was more Kryten-centric and the Holly character just got trivial lines like about opening doors etc.
In White Hole Hattie is brilliant. Again it surprises me that some people are slightly criticising series 2-6 or in this instance more specifically series 3-5.
I noticed while watching the Dave repeats of 1 to 8 that Norman was often flat as holly in series 8, he delivered his lines as if that's all he was doing just speaking lines, in series 2 he showed some acting emotion like he was an actual character
it's like his redone holly scenes for the remastered episodes which just didn't really work either
Agreed. It's something I think I've mentioned in the past when the subject of the possible return of Lovett has been mentioned that his Holly's appearances in VIII frequently leave plenty to be desired, not just the material (Which to be fair is not his fault) but his delivery of it too.
I'd rather have Hatty Hayridge's Holly over Series VIII Lovett back any day.
He's the real Holly as far as I'm concerned. Hattie was an imposter. That said, I have to agree about S8. Something just felt missing from his role - he didn't feature as much, and the affection between him and the crew, so beautifully portrayed in S1 and 2 just wasn't there.
Hattie as a person
Norman as a Holly
I have a feeling I may speak for many with this opinion?!?
No she wasn't...It was just that the role was reduced, & lazily written in comparison to RD1 & RD2...
I have never found hatties holly annoying, she didn't get enough material for that but what she did get she did a pretty good job of
Normans performance in Series 8 aside which was occasionally Meh, i'd say that was when holly got annoying with stuff like
"You look like the Turkish entry in the Eurovision Song Contest"
"and You look like the Turkish entry in the Eurovision Song Contest"
"What do you want, the long or the short version?"
I wouldn`t say it was lazily written. Just that they struggled with finding things for her to do.
But I also think Norman`s performance was much better. They did try to write some opening gags for Hattie in Series III and, albeit possibly with no rehearsal time, she absolutely murdered them imo. Norman could have got a laugh with that kind of material I think.
I like them both. It is a sad fact that you can't do some things with female actors, that you can do with male ones, because you get accused of sexism. David Jason said he didn't want a female character to replace grandad in Only Fools, because you can't get away with the same stuff. And he's right. Can you imagine the feminist backlash if they threw an old woman into the back of the van and called her all the names they called grandad? You'd get crazy women chaining themselves to the BBC gates threatening suicide!
Treat a man like he's an idiot or useless, it's funny. Treat a woman the exact same way, it's a portrayal of misogynist culture. That's the world we live in. But yeah, Norman had the better part by far. Hattie had a good role in White Hole, but not much else. Kryten coming into the series meant the Holly character was all but redundant. Norman was lucky to have the first 2 series before Kryten turned up.