Politics returns

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by neilold, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Haven't done one of my political threads for a while, so.

    How do you think the current government is doing? I wanna here from Tories and labour supporters, are you happy with how things are going, see it as a catastrophe, or something else? Also what are you views on labour seemingly dropping silent and not capitalising on what is seen by some to be a weak government with an inefectual leader?

    All opinions welcome
     
  2. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    I must say that Ms. May is very disappointing to ME but then I'm an American Liberal. (yeah , the capitalization was intentional) I think your Labor party is kind of laying down for her but am impressed with Mr. Corbyn's views and backbone. Was NOT impressed with Ms. Mays extremely rapid invitation to our "president" for a STATE visit. Especially since he has done nothing for better relations between our Nations. On the contrary he seems to hold both you as a people and your institutions in contempt. He just wants a big parade where he can ride in the Queens carriage and try to gain some respectability on the world stage and she just jumped right in on that. Shameful imho.

    Sorta on the same subject and pertinent to it, is the general political environment in Europe and here. (Yeah, Brexit or not you ARE part of Europe) History in general and European history in particular is something that interests me very much and something that I've studied in College and for fun. I'm seeing very disturbing parallels between the general political atmosphere of now and the early 1900's. Rising nationalism, a turning away from fact in favor of passion, scapegoats for the problems of society...... the list goes on. We all know what became of THAT, do we not? Many years of slaughter and regression of freedoms. 10 MILLION SOLDIERS and 7 million civilians dead in WW I. 60 MILLION dead , 25 million of them SOLDIERS and the rest civilians in WW II. Over 3% of the WORLDS population! They died as a result of the very same forces I see on the rise today. Its kind of scary to me and I'm not joking about that.

    Have we as a species forgotten the Horrors of what a huge general war entails? I think its telling that with the dying off of the last of the Veterans from these two wars, we seem ready to "play" with the forces that started them. The next Blitz that hits London won't be in the form relatively small conventional bombs but of insanely destructive missile's powered by the same forces that power the Sun. Are we, are YOU ready for that?

    .... Or do you live by the river?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  3. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Lol, You KNEW I couldn't stay away from this thread forever didn't you @neilold !
     
  4. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I support neither. Even with a gun to my head I’d struggle to pick either Corbyn or May to be my choice.

    I’m not that OLD but this is the first time in a while (given the amount of leaders the Tories went through in the 00s) that we have had two equally clueless, weak and dreadful leaders in charge of BOTH the main parties. Usually you have one stronger than the other (Cameron over Milliband ... Blair over Hague.... Blair over Duncan Smith etc...).

    To me, that’s worrying
     
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  5. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    So who would you pick if you had to vote now ant, and I'm not allowing an easy no vote option either?

    Stay away for ever big ole, you haven't lasted more than a few hours! I don't see us any closer to ww3 at this point than on previous times or the past. As for voting passionately, not factually, that's always happened and always will. As for trump, he is what he is, and despite your media's over the top to the point of totally stupid negative media portrayal, I don't think he's really much worse than any of you previous presidents. One thing that annoys me is the trump's finger on the button rhetoric. No it isn't, firstly there is no button in the first place, its not even in the football case, secondly, a nuclear strike requires a lot of generals approval,including the head of defence, civillian leaders and an entire lengthy process ,ridiculous to claim it's so simple
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  6. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Never said it was simple in the first place. I DO think we're closer to a nuclear holocaust than at any other time in MY life. Denying that is just sticking your head in the sand imho. Contrary to your thinking he is much worse than previous presidents. At least they were pro's. If you had cancer which Doctor would you want treating you, someone who's been doing it for awhile or someone who just THINKS they know what they are doing?

    ", if the President were to randomly walk into the Situation Room and unexpectedly order a nuclear strike, the Commander of USSTRATCOM would almost certainly hold the order and demand clarification." Clarification is much less than the safeguards you seem to think we have in place btw. Just how many Generals would defy their C.I.C. in the real world do you think? They will all be safe no matter what, its the poor suckers like us who would die.There's more too.

    Voting passionately instead of factually isn't as old as you seem to think either. And at least the passion had to have SOME grounding in reality. A child molestation ring run out of the basement of a Pizza joint and run by the Clintons? (detestable)Ted Cruz's father killed JFK? Aircraft contrails sowing drugs to make us all gay? C'mon you're letting your distaste of liberals cloud your rationality. One of the most passionate elections in our history was in 1860 but Mr. Lincoln was elected because of FACTS and a semi-cordial election process featuring debates and real provable facts and opinions. To state otherwise means you need to bone up on your American history.

    Don't take any of this to mean I'm a huge Hillary supporter either. I DO think she's intelligent and sane though as opposed to our current commander in chief. My "dream ticket" would be Elizabeth Warren/Bernie Sanders and I think that combination would be unbeatable no matter what Putin did or tried to do. Or our Nazis/Alt Right. Or Fox "news". I Do agree with @Ant E that on both sides of the Atlantic we don't have terribly effective leaders. Like that South Park episode we on both sides of the pond seem to have our choices limited to either a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich. Very few if any real Leaders anymore but just waffling craven bought and paid for opportunists. THATS a recipe for disaster no matter how you slice it.
     
  7. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I still think you're being overly paranoid. When I mentioned the finger on the button brigade, I want necessarily relating to you, in fact I wasn't talking about you at all
    My rationality is exactly that, rational, it's also extremely naive to think liberals, or democrats in your case, are any more capable than other party's, as it's being proved wrong innumerable times. As for fox, well it's no worse than liberal CNN in some cases, so they are what they are. I agree with the south park analogy to
     
  8. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Oh, I agree with you up to a point. Yes indeed there are some extremely slimy Democrats. One important factor that you overlook about U.S. politics is, and I really do hate to harp on this subject, is the Republican parties pandering to the crazies of the "christian right". As an example in the news in the last month or so look up Roy Moore and his beliefs. These people really want the world to end. I know this for a fact. They really believe Gays should be banned at a minimum or outright killed optimally. I have family members who believe these things and they are far from alone. Who does our C.I.C. pander to more than anyone else (besides our oligarchy of course) THOSE people. They are not rational any way you look at it imho. Getting away from that.........
    Besides I'd rather have a president who at least KNEW the words to our National Anthem and who can speak above a 4th grade level :
    http://www.newsweek.com/trump-fire-and-fury-smart-genius-obama-774169

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...does-he-know-the-song/?utm_term=.a8debc70f106

    No one party OR ideology has all the answers. NONE. But when you constantly ignore facts for beliefs or for more mundane things like money, see Senator Inhofe or any of the other climate change deniers, and cater to and misinform if not out right lie to the people about things both great and small :
    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
    That's pretty good indictment against both the party you belong to and yourself. Imho of course.
     
  9. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I guess there all as bad as each other, they all piss in the same pot anyway. Both parties tend to pander to a core sector of their vote. Over here the conservatives tend to pander to the rich and labour to students and minorities, or the working class. We don't have the radical Christian right over here to anywhere near the extent your country does, so it's not an issue as such
     
  10. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I guess at the end of the day it comes down to what you wanna believe and what your willing to not believe, when it comes down to who's better and more capable. Personally, I think some of the anti trump rhetoric is ridiculous.

    Take your example above, does trump know the national anthem? This is just the kinda inane rubbish the media love to focus on. So what if he doesn't? What's it gonna alter in his decision process on major world issues? nothing, how'd it stop him and his advisers running the country? it doesn't.

    It doesn't even make him a good or bad person, in fact what's it got to do with anything really, besides an unexplainable need for him to be able to sing it?

    The man's not stupid, even if you hate him, that still doesn't make him stupid. It's this sort of endless negative press that is just gonna make more people vote for him and view him as a martyr, it's certainly not gonna change any reasonably logical persons vote when it comes to such an important task as voting in a president
     
  11. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Well, for someone who drapes himself in the flag as he does I think not knowing the words of our National Anthem kinda shows not only his REAL "patriotism" but also his lack of brain power. Second graders know the words to that. But then I guess you think he's the "stable genius" he says he is. I disagree that chump is "not stupid" as you say. I think he's a moron and not just because I disagree with his politics. He has no grasp at all of what our Constitution says much less what it means. He got the "Rich Mans" admission to Fordham and contrary to what he SAYS he didn't graduate with honors and never once made the Deans List. But his business brilliance you say? O.K. I'll give you that one. It was brilliant of him to inherit $40 to $200 million from his father. He's such a brilliant businessman that there's not a bank in the United States that will back him OR loan him money because he stiff's them every single time.
    I also disagree with you about :
    his approval ratings stand at 37% and going down each month. He got 3 MILLION plus less votes than the seriously flawed candidate Ms. Clinton in the last election. If not for that archaic vestige of slavery, the electoral college, he would be sitting in Moscow having a Big Mac while watching prostitutes pee on each other as we speak. He only won THAT by a COMBINED total of about 60,000 votes too. IF by some wild chance he even makes it through his full term he'll go down in flames in 2020. Care to make a wager?

    But at the end of the day, we've had pretty much this same exact conversation more than once, haven't we? I'll never convince you to open your eyes and see what's really happening and you'll never convince me to come over to the Dark Side with you.
     
  12. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying trump is perfect, he's certainly flawed, just I don't think he's really as terrible as he's being made out to be, I guess history will decide who is right
     
  13. Abe

    Abe Deck Sergeant

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    I mean he does enough bad, stupid, hypocritical, or just plain strange thinvs that there's enough to have.negative stories about him daily. The press is only making him look bad because they're reporting on the things that he does.
     
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  14. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    yeah, but my point is that a lot of presidents have done a lot of bad stupid things daily. Why didn't we see it over Obama, and don't give me the cobblers that he didn't do them either
     
  15. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Console Officer

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    What did Obama do that was on Trump-scale stupid?
     
  16. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    Bring back Bill Clinton I say. He had a saxophone and liked ankle fat.
     
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  17. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I do not know what Obama did, he never seemed to get the media scrutiny trump does
     
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  18. Abe

    Abe Deck Sergeant

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    He got just as much scrutiny, there was just nowhere near as much to notice.
     
  19. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Hmmmmmm.......
     
  20. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Console Officer

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    Or maybe he just didn't do/say anything as stupid as Trump.
     

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