Rate Series X

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Bluey, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Here's the final results. Thanks to everyone who took part. Apart from me there were 45 participants, which was more than I expected. For comparison I've mixed them with the results for series 1 to 9. The series X results are marked in red:

    1 Back to Reality (5) 9.41
    2 Quarantine (5) 9.13
    = Marooned (3) 9.13
    4 Queeg (2) 9.03
    5 Polymorph (3) 8.84
    6 White Hole (4) 8.78
    7 Legion (6) 8.75
    8 Gunmen of the Apocalypse (6) 8.72
    9 The Inquisitor (5) 8.69
    = Out of Time (6) 8.69
    11 Thanks for the Memory (2) 8.63
    12 The Beginning (10) 8.59
    13 Dimension Jump (4) 8.50
    14 Justice (4) 8.44
    15 Better Than Life (2) 8.34
    16 Future Echoes (1) 8.13
    17 Me2 (1) 8.06
    = Stasis Leak (2) 8.06
    19 Timeslides (3) 7.88
    20 DNA (4) 7.81
    21 Entangled (10) 7.68
    22 Backwards (3) 7.66
    = Psirens (6) 7.66
    24 Holoship (5) 7.63
    25 Terrorform (5) 7.63
    26 Kryten (2) 7.46
    27 Trojan (10) 7.43
    28 Demons and Angels (5) 7.38
    29 Rimmerworld (6) 7.34
    30 Bodyswap (3) 7.33
    31 The Last Day (3) 7.25
    32 Fathers and Suns (10) 7.20
    33 The End (1) 7.06
    34 Parallel Universe (2) 7.03
    35 Confidence and Paranoia (1) 7.00
    36 Balance of Power (1) 6.82
    37 Emohawk: Polymorph II (6) 6.81
    = Cassandra (8 ) 6.81
    39 Meltdown (4) 6.75
    40 Camille (4) 6.66
    41 Lemons (10) 6.52
    42 Tikka to Ride (7) 6.47
    43 Stoke Me a Clipper (7) 6.25
    44 Dear Dave (10) 6.19
    45 Waiting for God (1) 5.71
    46 Blue (7) 5.41
    47 Epideme (7) 5.19
    48 Back in the Red (8 ) 5.06
    = Ouroborous (7) 5.06
    50 Krytie TV (8 ) 5.03
    51 Back to Earth (9) 4.83
    52 Nanarchy (7) 4.56
    53 Beyond a Joke (7) 4.47
    54 Duct Soup (7) 4.41
    55 Only the Good (8 ) 4.26
    56 Pete (8 ) 3.74
     
  2. Stephen

    Stephen Console Officer

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    Nothing really surprising although the spread of the RDX episodes made me raise my eyebrows a little. Top ten I can't argue with :-)
     
  3. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    The poor performance of Lemons is my only surprise. For some reason I thought that would do much better.
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Really? Its awful. A horrible half hour of telly!! :x
     
  5. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    although I didnt take part (forgot!) I would agree with the most of this. However, Queeg for me will always be number 1.
     
  6. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Interesting results. It's great to see The Beginning do so well. :-)
     
  7. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    I can't believe that The Beginning has scored higher than:

    Dimension Jump
    Justice
    DNA
    Holoship
    Terrorform

    Incredible. People must be watching a different programme from the one I watched. Either that or they're seeing something in it which completely eluded me. I thought it was mediocre comedy at best.
     
  8. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    I'm surprised by how highly some rate this episode. As with Lemons, when the first few notes of the ending theme played my first thought was, 'Oh, is that it?'

    Still, I liked it better than two of the episodes you mentioned, Dimension Jump and DNA.
     
  9. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    I find a lot of my favourites don't register highly on the average fan's fan list. Holoship is one of the best episodes because it's really the first time Rimmer does something truly noble, selfless and pretty damn heroic.

    I always loved Waiting For God too. To see it so unloved breaks my heart.
     
  10. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    On the flip side I'm surprised that marooned rates so highly. I like every episode of RDX and bte more than that episode - great banter and deep discussion between rimmer and lister but limited to only that.
     
  11. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    marooned is loved indeed because of the great banter and deep discussions, infact doug has tried to replicate similar style banter and deep discussions of that episode since series 7 but personally don't think he has or will ever be able too

    its a great plot idea for the whole marooned on a planet not knowing if they will be rescued thing
     
  12. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    To be honest, I was surprised Lemons scored so highly.

    Really? I thought RDX was great but I'd personally place BtE bottom of the pile against pretty much every other episode. I don't think Marooned is quite as good as it sometimes gets rated, but for the dialogue and the backstory it was a true classic. To me it represents precisely the sort of thing that should be done when it comes to the character's backstories rather than any more surprise reveals that turns their entire established history on its head.
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    that was my only problem with the episode the beginning, the big reveal probably sounded better in dougs head then how it actually works for the characters back story in my opinion

    not a big fan of that reveal
     
  14. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    Personally I think Marooned is probably the best episode of Red Dwarf, but I want to say that I completely agree with you about its handling of back-story. What we've seen in the solo-Naylor era is, IMHO, a very immature and "teenage boy" attitude to characterisation. As well as adding stuff that will clearly be difficult to treat properly later on (Lister's being his own father, for example: an obvious minefield of problems), and adding sensational stuff for the sake of it (it's Kryten's brother! Wow!), Naylor seems to walk all over previously-established things without much hesitation. I'm just amazed by his lack of judgement, frequently.

    An example would be Rimmer's outburst about Shakespeare in RDX. Even if he hadn't already explicitly voiced the opposite views about Shakespeare (in Marooned, funnily enough), such a rant would be completely out of character for him. This is a man who knows in his gut that there is more to life than servicing chicken soup machines, more to life than ruminating over a father's disappointment, more to life than study timetables, and more to life than petty bureaucratic pedantry, because he has been raised to believe in this other thing - sophistication, refinement, the voice of civilisation, the voice of freedom, etc. - but he also knows that he can't handle it, so he's restricted to petty bureaucracy, chicken soup machines, and study timetables. He's a tragic guy, but he also holds civilisation dear and protects it while other people are prepared to burn it for some temporary comfort. That is Rimmer; not some idiot coming out with a load of nonsense about "when are people going to say: Shakespeare, it's OVER!" which really is the sort of low-brow material I'd expect from a shallow 20-something media graduate with no appreciation of, well, anything.

    Naylor's writing seems to be aimed at a teenage audience. The basketball match in VIII springs to mind. In fact the entire treatment of Hollister in that series was infantile and unrewarding. I don't think Naylor writes for intelligent adults - and, without wishing to twist the knife too far, Rob Grant does.

    Marooned is an excellent character study of two men, done through the prism of the conflict between civilisation and animal survival. The issues are real and pertinent, the characters convincing and their dilemma agonising. Not only do I think Naylor couldn't manage such an episode on his own: I don't think it would even occur to him to write it. That's a damning statement, and I'm sorry to make it, but it explains why I don't see Red Dwarf ever reaching the heights it did in the past.

    But, looking at the Amazon reviews of RDX (currently 4 1-star reviews and 88 5-star reviews), I am clearly in a severe minority here. Maybe, all along, Red Dwarf fans found all that stuff about civilisation and character depth a bit boring and too challenging, and yearned for the days of simplistic characters and utter lack of intellectual substance that we're getting now. It's disappointing.
     
  15. Sammy Psycho

    Sammy Psycho Deck Sergeant

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    From reading this post about how much of the comedy is of an immature teenage writing style I just wonder how much input to the writing Doug's young son Richard Naylor has contributed ?
     
  16. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    Well I don't know how old Richard Naylor is. Possibly he had input into RDX but the problems I'm talking about go all the way back to VII, and certainly VIII.
     
  17. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I'm not so sure it's the comedy aspect of that episode that people love so much, although I quite liked the simulant gallows humour. It was the Rimmer character story and the cracking science fiction stuff. And while there are viewers who dislike the new stuff we find out in Rimmer's back story (I'm not one of them but I think I get where they're coming from) it certainly provides them food for thought and something to discuss.
     
  18. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I wasn't saying that Marooned isn't a great episode, I'm just saying that it would fit into my top 20 not my top 3.

    The beginning had some stupid things - Introducing someone who has had a lot of dealings with them before, yet we've never heard tell of him for example, that was terrible. maybe for some he was funny but he annoyed me. I was all hyped up about the theories in the spoiler thread and really hoped he would be a huge threat and a blast from the past with a twist (series 8 crew looking for revenge? Ace Rimmer mutilated and looking for revenge?) and instead we got YOU KEELZ MY BRUUUUZA and puerile banter about time and space that even kids shows would find embarrassing. The simulants not looking or acting like simulants as previously established was dumb too.

    That aside it had some great humour, we saw child Rimmer and we learned a lot of backstory, wed have potential development, we got great effects, real impending doom, and Cat was series 1's feline-man, not a donut-brained oaf.
    For that I think it was brilliant.
     
  19. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I think for the most part those of us who liked RDX did so in spite of moments like Rimmer's Shakespear speech not because of them. It was certainly not because I'd find anything more intellectually substantial too challenging.
     
  20. Seymour_Clufley

    Seymour_Clufley First Technician

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    I'm glad to hear that but why, then, do you not object to a show going so low-brow when it had previously been (certainly in sitcom terms) pretty high-brow? I don't understand why people aren't bothered by that.
     

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