Red Dwarf III Remastered Revisited

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by mychemicaldwarf, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. mychemicaldwarf

    mychemicaldwarf Second Technician

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    Watching Series III of the Remastered set.

    I remember disliking the changes, who wouldn't?, but ya know... it does look pretty good. Shame they cut scenes.
    I can't remember what cuts were made now, does anybody know offhand? I don't really care about FX being changed, i just hate dialogue being removed or replaced.

    On another note, i forgot how good series III was. I knew it was good, but it's closer to the best ever Dwarf than i realised. I always put VI and V above III without a thought, but ya know it's pretty close. Marooned has always been close to my favourite ever episode. It's probably between that, Queeg and Legion. But then there's also Bodyswap, which is excellent too. Polymorph, Timeslides, The Last Day. The only episode that in my humble opinion isn't quite up to top standard is Backwards and that's still a very solid episode. Series III really was a stonker! :-D
     
  2. FeeBeeBells

    FeeBeeBells Deck Sergeant

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    I only watched the remastered versions once with the subtiles on for the differences between episodes and then went back to the original cuts of each episode. I can't remember the difference between episodes but the subtitles had a lot of interesting information. Very tempted to go back and re-watch series 1 to 3 side by side with the original and remastered versions.
     
  3. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Hmmm that's strange as i rate series 3 as one of the worst!
     
  4. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    I watch the remastered episodes by default over the originals. Yeah it's a shame they cut out a few jokes here and there, but I feel the gain in color and picture quality in the remastered episodes is worth the lost jokes ten times over. I don't understand how people can go back to the "originals" after watching remastered. S1 and S2 especially are so devoid of color and personality it's like watching a 3rd generation video cassette recording of a black and white program in comparison to the remasters. Plus, I'm partial to the longer Dwarf anyway so it really makes it a no brainer.

    I truly hope whenever these Blurays of the older series surface that they contain the remasters and not just the originals. I'm guessing if anything they are going to either be the originals and remasters (sort of like the Star Trek TOS Blurays), or just the originals. Hate to think I'll have to stick with DVD & VHS to continue watching the remasters.
     
  5. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    The Remasters are over-saturated, needlessly cropped and have an ugly "film" effect. To me they look much worse than the originals. That coupled with the cut jokes and awful CGI replacements for the model shots (even you have to agree the chase in Bodyswap looks absolutely horrible), I don't understand how anyone could prefer the Remasters.

    There's nothing wrong with preferring them, but in all the years I've spent on Red Dwarf sites I've seen almost exclusively hatred for the Remasters for the same reasons I've listed and more.
     
  6. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Thing about the remastered is that while there are moments that are improved because of it there are also changes made that don't improve and just stand out as odd like dubbing over rimmers mothers voice, a skutter green screened into the shot or rimmer running through the cat just to crash into some stuff

    as i said there are a couple of things that were improved, some bits in polymorph for example but its like in backwards where starbug cloaks and lands, in the remastered they add that starbug cloaking effect but then when you see lister and the cat step out of starbug they look like CGI stick figures because they been shrunk down to match the starbug effect, while with the original yeah you didn't get the starbug effect but you got a wider shot of lister and the cat stepping out of starbug standing on nothing and that effect is probably better looking then the starbug cloak effect, good change? bad change? i dunno.

    i have no issue with the colour corrections or cropped image, its more about the over saturation of trying to improve and totally over doing it, thats what hurt the remastered, along with perhaps using the CGI models where there were just as many limitations and very few advantages like having starbug crash in bodyswap, you see it heading towards a cave wall,the timing of the shot was abit off given the speed the bug was going but also the fact it cuts away because they couldn't show the actual crash and then the next shot its just laying on the cave floor, huh? say what you like about the original but did that actually improve anything? thats pretty much the remastered in a nutshell
     
  7. FeeBeeBells

    FeeBeeBells Deck Sergeant

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    Does anywhere play Red Dwarf repeats at the moment in your part of the world? If they are play are the first three seasons the original or the repeats.

    In Australia they are currently playing on the sattelite TV Sci-Fi channel and they are the orginals. Free to air ABC Australia last played Red Dwarf at the end of 2015 and I did not pay attention to if they played the originals or the remasters.
     
  8. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I honestly have never seen the "Remastered" episodes since they first aired, which honestly is no big loss for me. The thing that always struck me as the episode that was worst effected was the Starbug and Blue Midgit chase from Bodyswap, remembering how bad that was really hasn't inspired me to revisit the Remastered episodes....
     
  9. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Japans release is the remastered versions but just dubbed over, but since series 4 to 6 wasn't remastered it must be kinda confusing once the ship shrinks in series 4 onwards
     
  10. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Even more confusing is it going back to pencil in series 8!
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    The pencil design in 8 is at least explained by the nanobots returning the ship layout to its original design.

    I actually really liked the remastered chase scene in Body swap. There's nothing wrong with the original model sequence (it's really good in fact) but in the end it was another crash onto a frozen planet/moon. The remastered was pretty exciting, whooshing in an out of the caverns of an asteroid!

    I can understand why people don't like it though. The CGI ships didn't look quite right, mainly as we see the back section of Starbug straight on with no turning when flying through the asteroid.
     
  12. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Because while I love the better picture quality of the remasters, almost every single other change I find terrible - everything from the hideous new CGI external shots to the unnecessary new sound effects and redubbing of Mrs Rimmer. Apart from the improved picture quality I can think of one - just one - change I felt improved on the original episodes - the dubbing on of someone talking over the public-address system in the distance in The End, which helps to give an impression of the ship's vastness. My thoughts are the complete opposite to yours: I can't understand why anyone would prefer the remastered episodes to the originals. The remastered episodes are an abomination.

    As for season 3, I'm probably in a small minority but five of the season's six episodes are in my all-time bottom 20 episodes. I feel at this point that the show was still finding its feet with its transition to more ambitious episodes, something that season 4 started to get right and 5 and 6 perfected. I didn't even like Polymorph with its atrocious special effects. Season 3's only saving grace was the more old-style episode Marooned, which is rightly lauded as one of Red Dwarf's finest half hours.
     
  13. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I prefer the remastered eps. Apart from bodyswap
     
  14. "Christmas rubbish"

    "Christmas rubbish" Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Who was this original poster?
     
  15. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    I think you're exaggerating a bit on these. The color certainly is not over-saturated. The originals are extremely under saturated to the point they appear almost like B&W programs. Side by side the remasters certainly look "over saturated" but one of the most telling parts for me is after they move into the Officer's Block in S3, those quarters are (supposed to be) WHITE. Watching the original S3 and S4 and the quarters appear first-piss-of-the-morning yellow. Ugh.

    The "film" effect I could take or leave, actually I think it improves the look of the programs.

    And lastly, the cropping... If this truly is any part of the reason why you don't like the remasters, I'm sorry. The cropping is SO SLIGHT that I can't even see it on my CRT TV when I watch because it's OUTSIDE the overscan area. Which means I was never seeing that part of the picture to begin with, even on the originals. If I watch it on an LCD, then I can see very slight black bars at the top and bottom. They don't hold a CANDLE, however, to the GIANT black bars on EITHER SIDE of the picture since the original is 4:3 and LCDs are 16:9. And those GIANT black bars are there watching the originals too, since they were also 4:3.

    So people that don't like the cropping: are you objecting to the presence of black bars, or the fact that they removed some of the picture to facilitate the letterboxing? If the former, how do you deal with the aforementioned GIANT black bars on either side of the image? If the latter, please see above. Chances are you weren't seeing most of this picture information anyway, since LCDs didn't become mainstream until well after S8 aired.

    I'm sorry, I'm not trying to direct this tirade at you in particular, you just happened to parrot all the "common problems" with the remasters that everyone regurgitates which are really pretty asinine when you really get down and think about them.

    Look, we can't really argue opinions. Because they are just that, opinions. If you think the remasters look "much worse" than the originals, then that's your opinion. But it sort of comes across like someone saying a HiDef 1080p image looks "much worse" to them than a low resolution 240i image. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

    I will give you that the CGI technology in the remasters was not as far along as maybe I would have liked, and sometimes I feel they went a bit overboard with the nebulas and stuff in the background. I mean, it's like every starscape needed any combination of the following: a planet, nebula, or spacey dust-type storm. But c'mon, it's not like the model shots in S1-S3 were anything to write home about. The model shot stuff didn't start getting really good until S5 or so. S1-S3 mostly reused the same stock shots they filmed for S1 over and over again.

    I bet you also prefer the original Blue Midget too, that was clearly a terrestrial truck-type vehicle model painted blue with thrusters and other spacey things glued on.

    Again, opinions...

    Indeed. Almost like people formed the opinion by reading someone else's complaints and maybe watching a Youtube clip of the "worst, most ridiculous remaster moments" or something, and spreading the word without even sitting down and watching them all. I'm not saying this is you, but I'd bet my next paycheck that a high percentage of those expressing "exclusive hatred" for the remasters fall into that category. It seems like most people "hate" them because it's trendy or in vogue.

    The only real legitimate argument against the Remasters, in my mind, is the removal of some jokes. I personally don't miss any of the stuff they removed; listening to the commentaries, it seems like it was mostly 80s British pop culture references that doesn't mean anything to the rest of the world that they removed anyway, which is fine by me (never been to the UK). The only joke I notice that is missing when I watch is the "black card/white card" bit, because that actually went on for a bit. Not sure why that one was removed, but it certainly didn't break the episode.
     
  16. Captain_Star

    Captain_Star Third Technician

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    The widescreen cropping didn't effect me, as I saved my money & watched the uncropped remastered episodes on BBC2. The arbitary editorial changes with no thought given regarding context irritated me.

    Holly's inserted "Yes God!" reply in THE END has no set up.

    New sound effect of Rimmer colliding "hilariously" with something in the corridor after charging through Cat. How?!! he's a hologram!!!

    The cutting of Rimmer/Kochanski's "I've seen something you haven't squire!" makes certain sense with later series continuity, but it's rendered pointless by the plot of Confidence & Paranoia.

    Rimmer's Mother redubbed with a "posh" accent when the whole point of the scene is the Polymorph making her as common & vulgar as possible to provoke him.

    They could've at least put the uncropped versions in the Bodysnatcher set though.
     
  17. Almighty_crj

    Almighty_crj First Technician

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    More baffling is: it's a clatter noise. Forgive the him knocking something over the second and focus on what could possibly but stacked up that a nuclear wind couldn't push over...

    IMHO right place for a gag but wrong gag. It sounds odd that Holly doesn't respond in the original but nobody mentions God until 'Waiting for God'.

    Holly should have said "Yes, oh stupid one?" calling back 'Lister the stupid!?!'
     
  18. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    The remastered were over cooked, they tried to fixed things and ended up over cooked other things, i mean sometimes i think people are abit harsh on the remastered but then i remember stuff like the new filmed holly redo scenes in The End and Waiting for god where they don't blend with the original holly scenes at all in the same series because normans voice sounds noticably a little different and the way they are shot also looks noticably different, even though they tried to replicate the original look... yeah it just didn't work, and perhaps they should have just left it alone and not refilm those holly scenes in the first place, especially his "everybody is dead" sequence which norman does not do as well as he did in the original

    I also found that almost all the red dwarf in space shots had the exact same music cue over and over each time, the originals had different variations of it while the remastered mostly just kept doing the same one over and over, same with Series 8 and BTE actually, series 10 brought back the variation

    and the CGI blended with the models didn't work either, like having CGI starbug shot and then shot it would be a model.
     
  19. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    I've seen clips from the remastered first 3 series like on, was it the Red Dwarf A-Z documentary and that has put me off so much that I never bought the Bodysnatcher DVDs. I prefer the old charm of originals and that does fine for me. Even when I watch 16:9 on my blu-ray player up-scaled I still am satisfied with the originals even though obviously once RD went to series 4/5 it started to look superior.

    As for series 3, I know I have said this many times before that usually it is in my top 3 Red Dwarf runs. It was the start of a new era for RD and Rob and Doug really changed the style of the show to more action/sci-fi while retaining the flawless comedy of the previous 2 series. It paved the way for even more heavy sci-fi RD in the future and Rob and Doug honed this style further for the next 3 series. Because the first 3 episodes are amongst some of my very top episodes of RD and the other 3 are extremely enjoyable too that is why it is in my top 3 series most of the time. The sets are iconic too!

    I know some posters on here are not too keen on it but obviously that's fair enough too.

    Happy New Red Dwarf Eve btw!:-D
     

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