Red Dwarf on Blu-rays?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by steve51184, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    First Off, I absolutely love the comparison. Spot on. Secondly, I think in the passion of my rant, my disdain for George Lucas' handling of the Star Wars remasters took over my thought process. Choice does make it OK, I agree. Though I personally still prefer the originals over the remasters, the existence of the remastered versions of Red Dwarf do not jeopardize the historical preservation of the original broadcast versions. Unlike Star Wars! The existence of the remastered Star Wars movies HAS jeopardized the preservation of the originals. You can't even buy the original films on anamorphic ws dvd! And Lucas didn't even direct Empire or Return of the Jedi! But I digress...again. :-P
     
  2. dvd3500

    dvd3500 Catering Officer

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    If that were only the case. They take them off the market, claim they will never be available, then bring them out anyways...

    Double, triple dipping...
     
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Would now be a good time to point out that the new Star Wars Blu-rays are the remastered editions...but that Lucas has said the originals will follow in proper quality. Once these have made the money to pay for it.

    Now, I don't believe the reason - Lucasfilm can't really plead poverty - and I'm not massively keen on the double dip. but at least it's stated clearly, before the release, so you get the choice.

    Not that it's that great. I mean, there's material on the Blu-ray that was blatantly held back from being on the DVDs...
     
  4. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Bit late in the game here.

    Obviously, it wasn't filmed in 1080i so it can't be released in that format, as has been said.

    One interesting option that hasn't been looked into for Blu-Ray is the increased data the disc can hold. In 10 years DVD will begin to go the way of VHS, if not sooner. When that happens then companies will begin to want to exploit TV shows that weren't filmed in HD, I believe it will begin a rise in shows being released on Blu-Ray but with many more episodes on one disc. Not only will they be able to fill more episodes onto one disc but they will be able to have much less restricting MPEG encoding meaning that the picture quality will be improved (not to a massive amount but it will look and sound better).
    I certainly hope that in 2020 (or even before!) I will be able to buy Red Dwarf: The Complete Series 1-3 including 2 discs with Series 1-3 in their original and remastered form on disc one and the extras on disc two.
     
  5. dvd3500

    dvd3500 Catering Officer

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    Where was that?
    I only saw him say that it would be expensive...
     
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Sorry, don't have a link to hand.
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Honestly - you'll watch Blu-ray die at the same time as DVD. HD pick-up hasn't been so swift, and people - as opposed to fans - aren't upgrading their collections so eagerly. Honestly by 2020 I'd seriously expect discs of all kinds to be on their way out. The download market is going to change it all. Just as I've not bought music in solid form for years, pretty soon we'll be doing the same with TV and film. At which point Blu-ray is as dead as DVD...and I expect, because of the slower take-up and backwards compatibility, they'll fold at about the same time.
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Spot on. The gains of bonus content, storage space and picture/sound (not just quality, but in a lot of cases the chance to be in the right damn aspect ration for the first time) were, as a combination, huge.

    Blu-ray? A higher price for...just better picture and sounds. But 'decent surround sound' to 'wall-shaking surround-sound isn't as huge as the jump from stereo. And, as you say, at the same time as we're buying HD TVs, we're watching 4oD, YouTube and the iPlayer. (Plus the gains of HD only become important if your set is over a certain size...not to mention how close you sit.)

    We'll all go to HD, that's for certain. But Blu-ray? I dunno about anyone else, but I'm still buying DVD, despite being a massive TV-phile and cineaste. Because I have one Blu-ray player, but more than one place in the house to watch DVDs...and sometimes I take discs round to friends who don't have Blu-ray either.

    Upgrading to Blu-ray fully means upgrading for every TV in the house. And your friends doing the same. (Including, often, the various desk PCs and laptops.) And doing so has far less incentive when 'audio/video quality' is the one reason - especially for anyone 'regular', the non-enthusiasts who just like the odd rated movie between reality shows.

    In some ways, Blu-ray is the new laserdisc. Wider spread, of course, thanks to a hugely different cost and a very different market status. And no question the best way to watch stuff right now. But the crossover's likely to only go so far, and download is coming up fast behind.
     
  9. dvd3500

    dvd3500 Catering Officer

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    Well I bought my TV in 2003 and I haven't upgraded yet. I got a converter box to go from Component to RGB SCART and the picture quality is as good as it can every be.

    My receiver has analog inputs and is DTS capable and I notice difference in sound as well.

    But Alas, Andrew is right, it is a bit of an enthusiast/geek thing.

    Sure, none of it is HD but it is better than DVD.

    There are a few nifty features in Blu-Ray like being able to navigate the menu without leaving the film and the fact that you have a myriad of languages on one disk etc.

    I am applauding the studios making many releases multi-region or region free. There are still a few region-locked Blu-Rays out there but most are region free. They also aren't putting massive amounts of different extras on the US and European versions like they did back in DVD release days.
     
  10. steveedster

    steveedster Third Technician

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    Cant see these coming out on BR disc to be honest.

    A good comparison to make is Star Trek, the original series was shot on film, as such this can be released on BR (and has been)in 1080p, however later series (shot in the 80's and 90's) TNG, Voyager and DS9 were shot on video same as Dwarf, these are not available as HD, its not until you get to Enterprise you will get HD again with current TV filming methods.

    Thats as basic as you can get it really with a good example from another show that has been released in the suitable formats for each series. A said before the only point for a BR release of the Dwarfs made in the 80's and 90's would be to fit all the content for each series onto a single disc. ;-)
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Not quite true, I don't think. They were shot on film but edited on video - which means every live-action effects show was only produced to SD quality. So a back-to-the negative, recreate-every-edit-and-composite-shot process would likely be prohibitively expensive. But not, technically, impossible.
     
  12. steveedster

    steveedster Third Technician

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    Whatever the technical detail, I was just stating, the reason that TOS has been released on BR and those 3 series (TNG, Voyager and DS9) have not, was due to TOS being film based if you know what I mean. :-)
     
  13. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I think we all got that. But you said TNG was shot on video, like Red Dwarf - it wasn't, though; the new series are film-based, too. So I was just clarifying that point. Indeed, there may come a time when the other Trek series get HD releases/remasters. It is possible, because the film-shot assets exist.
     
  14. steveedster

    steveedster Third Technician

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    Well as you said, they were edited on Video, so the final 'product' was on video in that sense. Dont think we will see the TNG series on BR for that reason.

    That is obviously the reason why they have only released TOS on BR and not the later TNG series.
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Indeed. But it's the cost, not the lack of available content. The shots are all there on film, and it's not impossible - especially with a franchise as big as this - for the EDL (the information that relates the video edit to the original film stock, matching exactly to the frame) to be used to recreate the episodes at film quality.

    Moreover, the original series was remastered. Not just cleaning up the stock (lest we forget those episodes were also likely delivered for broadcast on video, not as film reels) but new FX were created. Which means it's financially viable to do such a job on a Trek series - and so possible that the FX recreations could be done for TNG. There's precedent for it.

    The real reason it hasn't happened is simply that because it hasn't happened yet. Blu-ray's a young medium, and you don't dive in head first. Releasing TOS was the wisest first move. But as the future goes HD, Paramount (along with everyone else) will be looking to monetise their assets. To allow the catalogue to survive and continue generating revenue.

    As HD becomes more and more the standard, so post-production costs will go down. As they go down, and as broadcasters more and more demand HD delivery for broadcast, the more attractive it will become to the owners of the assets to make exactly this kind of investment. It's already happening with Seinfeld; the show was cut on video just like TNG, so the film stock's been EDL'd - and, irritatingly, rendered widescreen - so syndication will stretch into the future. And if a sitcom can do it...

    My bet? When the second Trek film of the new era appears in cinemas, you're going to see TNG coming out on Blu-ray.
     
  16. steveedster

    steveedster Third Technician

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    Maybe Andrew yer, Our little convo got me googling, seems someone in the Insider forum said that the initial cost for a TNG remaster would be minimally 35M$ dollar. That's for rescanning the season 35mm element and redoing all CGI effect in 1080p. So that's a no no yet on blu-ray if ever.
     
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    That's for all 7 series, I assume? So it's a cost that would be spread over seven box sets, each of which come out (is TOS is anything to go by) with a RRP over $100 before settling down to being available for around $65.

    Now, in its first week on Blu-ray, in North America alone, the latest Trek movie sold 1.1 million units. That's obviously going to be a long way from the sales of an old TV series, but let's face it, a million of each series, worldwide, in total sales isn't hard to imagine.

    Now, ignoring the fact than HD mastering is coming down in price rapidly - in a year that $35m will be lower (assuming it's even a recent number, sounds like it might not be) - that means that, based on those numbers, $5 of every box set purchased would just be covering the costs. Which is a high percentage, but not insurmountable.

    And then factor in download sales. That's on the rise. More importantly, imagine the syndication sales. Every major global territory will pay a premium to get the first HD play of Trek. And, again, as HD stations spring up, the competition and demand for content is only going to get higher.

    It soon adds up. Not for every show, not right now. But Seinfeld points the way: it's happened with that show precisely because it's massively popular and has enough series to be easily syndicated. Trek absolutely fits alongside that, and while even that sitcom will have cost millions to master in HD, there's no way it would do the home Blu-ray sales that Trek would do.

    So "a no no on yet Blur-ray if ever" is interesting. Don't be any doubt - it will go to HD. It's damn-near inevitable, it's in the financial interest of the studio and the franchise. There will be HD masters, and they will be made available for broadcast and download. It's only the Blu-ray aspect that's in question: will the format survive long enough, and reach far enough, by the time this is done to be worth it?
     
  18. steveedster

    steveedster Third Technician

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    Yes true,

    Guess there are a lot of factors, it certainly has the market as you say. Its just the time element.
     
  19. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I think it will. I know people haven't taken to Blu-ray as much and as quickly as DVD (lets face it's it's pretty much the same technology) but I get the impression it is taking off at least. I think you're right that HD downloads will be the way forward, but I think there will always be people who want a physical item. Especially those who can't afford the larger bandwidths that makes proper HD distribution feasible.
     
  20. ADent1

    ADent1 Skutter

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    I picked up a WB/BBC America set that looks bad. Even the BBC logo screen is crappy. Many macro blocks on everything.

    All disks are all single layer disks (4.7GB).
     

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