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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Hollo_Marx, Sep 3, 2014.
yep so you ARE breaking the law
Does this face look bothered ?
Well it should, unless you don't give a damn about stealing. . .
Says you who was (jokingly) discussing acquiring my Red Dwarf collection.
Anyways, your telling me you have never done anything a little bit questionable ?
In this day and age, it's something you just have to live with, there will always be piracy in some form, doesn't make it right, but, unless you plan on becomming a one man vigilante fighting against it all, then, not a lot can be done.
We do not all have to blindly follow the increasingly careless attitude towards blatant criminality. . .
And there we have it, folks. This is the kind of simplistic black and white, idealistic perceptions created and perpetuated by the fact that intellectual property and copy right laws have gone way too far, thus influencing/conditioning certain people into seeing theft everywhere! Even when no one is loosing out financially. Or indeed intellectually...
"Ah but...principles!...Something for nothing culture! Burning sense of self-entitlement!", blaugh, blaugh, black-and-white blaugh ...
What have we become? A species who have not only been financially, but psychologically coerced into perceiving/believing that even the most harmless sharing is out right theft? It was never meant to be this way.
Simulant1000, I hereby charge you with aiding and abetting intellectual property theft by means of sharing music videos (from the file sharing site known as "youtube") on the music thread of this very forum! By doing so you have allowed people to watch and listen to said music videos without paying! You are also being held under the suspicion that you have leant out DVD's to various friends over the years, thus allowing the film content to enter their brains without them even paying for it! This is immoral!
Everybody, it's Okay. I'm with the Stolen Artefacts Foundation.
Simmie, get out of my sight! You make me sick, Simmie! I'll talk to you on the plane, simmie!
Nobody be alarmed, it's all under control. I'm agent Freebie 69 from the Stolen Artifacts Foundation, and thanks to you good people we were able to catch this man, this criminal, this gangster, this pirate, this...filthy, dirty Communist who thinks that sharing artistic content and experiences is somehow expectable behaviour!
Simulant1000, you have no idea how angry and disappointed I am with you right now! Shame on you. Shame. On. You! . . . :x :x :x
Yes, because we all buy music videos
& you know full well how youtube works! It cannot be compared to illegally downloading. But of course in your hippy dippy world of freedom we can steal as we so wish...all property is theft I guess. . .
Youtube is a file sharing site. Realistically speaking it makes no difference whatsoever if you listen to the music or watch the TV shows and films online or download them to your computer.
you know full well how youtube works! It cannot be compared to illegally downloading.
Just keep painting this simplistic black and white picture in your head, sim.
I'm off now to watch an episode of 'Rob Grant's The Strangerers' before heading out to boogie on down. I downloaded the series in torrent format, which is the only way we're likely to be able to watch it - unless one happened to record it, ie make a video COPY (such a powerful, perception-changing word that, isn't it?) or know someone who made a VHS COPY when it was broadcast for the first and only time..
Then, later I'll be watching the DVD my friend leant me. This of course means that I'll be watching ("stealing"?) the film content without paying for it. But hey, since the digital information isn't entering my brain via a COPY that's okay, right?
But were I to make a COPY on my laptop, give the original DVD back to my friend and allow the film content to enter my brain via the COPY, does that then make me an immoral thief?
Erm , from the rules that were correct at the time of VHS and DVD you are within your rights to lend out those said items to anyone you like as long as they have a valid TV licence.
[quote="I'm off now to watch an episode of 'Rob Grant's The Strangerers' before heading out to boogie on down.[/quote]
Ugh, it should be a criminal offence to watch that utter juvenile pile of crass nonsense! Rob Grant should be ashamed of himself for writing such council estate dross!
Yes, I know. I was merely pointing out that there are two ways of watching 'The Strangeres', one being less likely than the other, considering how long ago it aired for the first and only time.
Are you trying to tell me that you have a VHS copy of 'The Strangerers' I could borrow? Or are you implying that you think it's wrong of me to access the series via a torrent-based download? And if so, why?
Hypothetically speaking, the only rational argument against it (that I can think of off the top of my head) would be if it was still available to watch via the subscription-based Sky-one catch up service. But to the best of my knowledge, it's not.
So what to do? Should we just allow the series to die a sad and lonely death? Never to be seen again? What a mournful waste that would be... Imagine that, 'The Strangerers', lost in time, and lost in space.
Anyway, all that tot aside, an alternative way of watching the series would be to watch it on the file sharing site known as "youtube". The files uploaded to youtube appear to originate from the same unofficial file upload as those on torrent sites...But...meh, potential buffering. Which is why I personally chose to access the files via Bit Torrent instead.
But that's just me. Perhaps the likes of simulant may consider accessing the files via youtube. After all, we "know full well how youtube works! It cannot be compared to illegally downloading." Isn't that right, Simmie?
Anyway, I'm off to watch the latest Doctor Who episode online now - legally, mind! What with me not needing a TV license to legally watch shows on bbciplayer and other catch up services. Great rule, that. ...Ooooor is it?..
On the other hand...once again there's the potential of buffering and choppiness with bbciplayer...hmm, what to do? To torrent or not to torrent? That is the question.
What do you guys think? Other than "Rules/guidelines" - or some kind of self-perceived morel high ground - is there any rational reason you can think of as to why I perhaps shouldn't download a torrent of the latest Doctor Who episode from a trusted source?
That's not a rhetorical question by the way, I'd be genuinely interested to hear of any genuinely logical reasons not to access the episode this way.
Rules/guidelines to answering the question: Please try to stick to the point. I'm asking a very specific question about a very specific episode of a very specific show. So before you consider answering, please bare in mind that I never said that I fully support all torrent-based downloads. Again I don't believe this to be a black and white issue. I genuinely think there are some major - and I mean major military and ocean grey areas.
You wouldn't steal a car....:x
I hope you have a tv license either way... Do you?
Steal? No. Replicate/share/download? Yes, probably. One day.
And one day, you may do so too.
*Propaganda/Public Relations mode engaged*
This metaphysical notion of "stealing" ones "intellectual" property will soon pass. But before that happens, the way money is created, controlled and perceived must change. And so long as we take the right path, it will be. This will see emerging new values, attitudes and perceptions when it comes to the ways we currently use words such as work, sharing, stealing, intellectual property, etc. The artists and innovators of our world will finally feel free and happy to share their work free of charge, as the profit motive will no longer be relevant in regards to their "rights to a decent life". By which point all we're left with is an ego-based argument.
"No!" You can't have it, that's miiiine!" *stomps feet and take toys away even though I wasn't playing with them at the time* "Mine, mine, mine, mine MINE! Waaaaaaaa!" Sound familiar? This is not natural behaviour. We learn and teach it from a very young age.
Open source is the way, the truth, the life. This is the direction we're naturally heading in, whether the public, corporations or governments recognise or accept it yet or not. And it has little to do with ideologies, and much to do with evolution (both social and technical) and basic common sense.
As for the "you wouldn't steal a car" rhetoric. I genuinely perceive those propaganda-bound, emotionally manipulative, fear-mongering adverts as unintentional satire. Do they still make those adds?
No, I genuinely no longer 'own' a TV license, and at this point it's quite possible that I never will again. I do 'own' the Doctor Who series 1-4 DVD boxsets though (along with some classic RW DVDS. I've also somewhat begrudgingly downloaded some of the more recent episodes from itunes (even though I could've just downloaded torrents every time of course). I did so for Red Dwarf X too (in addition to buying two copies of the DVDs, one being a gift in region 1 format). Why? Because I try to support the shows I enjoy and would like to see more of as much as possible. Isn't this how the free market system is supposed to work?..
However, I have now decided that I wont be giving anymore money to itunes, unless I have no other option. Ideally, I wish I could buy Red Dwarf episode downloads directly from this very site. Imagine that. I also wish I could buy the DVD extras via downloads. This would help save the inherent wastefulness of buying physical copies.
But I don't actually watch mainstream TV shows anywhere near enough nowadays to justify paying a license fee. Also, I'm of the belief that the BBC should be a pay-per-view channel, as opposed to this primitive, highly unfair and ilogical all-inclusive TV license nonsense. The fact that people have to put up with annoying adverts *AND* pay a license fee is unacceptable in this day and age. And I doubt the other TV netorks are particularly happy about it either.
And I genuinely think this will happen in the near future...well, if the BBC have any sense and hope to survive the inevitable, ever-emerging digital revolution. The only other option would be to include adverts, but I feel that would be a counter-productive move for them at this point.
Part of the reason I decided not to renew my license was because I realised that I hadn't actually turned my TV on - or even bothered plugging in the airial for almost 6 months after moving into my current address. And that's in addition to many months of paying for my last license despite not watching TV. And obviously there is absolutely no way whatesoever that they can tell whether or not I was wacthing TV, since the "TV detector vans" are about as accurate as Tarot cards. So they don't do refunds. Not that I would expect them to do so even if I could prove it, as Capita (aka TV Licensing) are an extremely corrupt company. And many (but not all) of their so-called "enforcment officers" are no better than your average gangster running extortionist protection rackets.
The majority of mainstream TV shows I've watched over the passed year or so are older shows (mostly documentaries and sitcoms), although I do watch the odd recent show too. And I tend to watch them via DVD's (bought or borrowed - mostly the latter nowadays), TV catch services and a combination of legal and admittedly not quite so legit downloads.
Although for what it's worth, in the case of the latter I don't just pick and choose randomly. If I like a show and want to see it continued, I'll pay for it if I have the "spare" cash - even if I've already seen it via non-legit downloads. For example, I plan on buying the 'Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey' either on DVD or via legal downloads. But I initially watched the episodes via torrent-based downloads. I also downloaded the official and fully legal torrents for one of my favourite web series Culture In Decline. *Contains strong language*. The torrents are free of charge (the series can also legally be watched on youtube). But I fully intend on either buying the DVD boxset or making a donation to the producer in support of the series.
If you or anyone else reading this have created any shows, music or other kind of art or literature, I would be more than willing to pay for it. But I'll warn you right now, I will share it with friends, in some shape or form, if I think it's any good. And for this you should be greatful, as some of them are quite likely to subsequently pay for it themselves.
This is how we roll. We support stuff we would like to see more of, and leave out all the rest. This is the choice we make. These are the hands we're given. And this is the life we're living.
This is your world but we say "No way! I wont go!"
A life less ordinary is the one I chose.
Far away from the souls still healing,
We rise to the sun, to the hope of freedom.
Erm, sorry about that, I got a bit song-quotey there...which some may think makes me a thief of intellectual property. But surely no where near as bad as certain people who "steal" GIFs to use as their forum avatars
Here we go, hippy dippy anti-capitalist nonsense that fails to take into account the artist! What happens to the musician, actor etc who loses out financially because of illegal downloads etc! SHAME ON YOU!
Simulant entirely missing the point there - as per usual, regardless of the topical discussion, 'controversial' or otherwise. It's clear that some people simply don't want to understand other people's views. And I can accept that.
Neither, I don't have the Strangerers' VHS tape and I don't honestly care if anyone watches a program via another medium. What other people do is pretty irrelevant to me but it is of interest on your opinion and others' opinions on this subject.
Ohh an yes, it would be a shame to see some programs that never get shown again or released on vhs dvd etc disappear altogether.
Ah, see this is a pleasant contrast to simulant seemingly not wanting to understand, or even take into concideration other people's views.
Personally, I tend to look at life like this *tilts head to one side* We humans may not always agree, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I feel that if we all agreeed all of the time there would likely be no progress. As progression generally tends to come about via various different views, perceptions, compromises and understandings
Wrong. Disagreeing with someone's point of view is NOT the same is missing the point/not understanding it. . .