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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by listerrr, Oct 11, 2012.
So now you are recommending I be imprisoned! :x
A great post and makes oodles of sense.
I think you`re right that Dwarf is set like concrete in some people`s heads (mine included probably) which makes it tougher to like any changes.
I don't think it helped that doug has made many mistakes since he has been solo involved in the show, with series 7 you can forgive because alot of things were out of his control but if you look at the direction he took series 8 it couldnt have been more different and then the remastered versions which was a big mess and then there was 10 years of no dwarf because doug wanted to get the movie off the ground and then there was BACK TO EARTH which left many feeling underwhelmed
id imagine the problem is rob grants contribution is no longer there and it can be abit noticable
Very true. A common sense response for the most part. . .
I think in the previous series' the camera angles and direction in general was 100x better- though this isn't a complaint because, like when my favourite bands come out with a new album that sounds totally different from other albums but often I like it still, part if the charm of RD is that it changes and I like that this is different in that way... Though I hope Douglas will only co-direct any future series as he's not a brilliant director :P
After four episodes, I want to express my thoughts about Red Dwarf X. Yes, there are two more episodes to go, but I think it's fair to comment on the 66% of the series that's been broadcast - it's very unlikely to change much in the final 33%, after all.
I just don't think this series is very good. I'm amazed at people saying it is anything like as good as the old days. I can only explain this with the following theory: there is huge joy and relief that Red Dwarf is back after so long and that (ostensibly) the ingredients for its greatness are all present (the 4 actors, multicamera, studio audience), so people are being very easily pleased, because they are loathe to admit that this is nowhere near as good as Red Dwarf has shown itself to be capable of being.
Now I realise that is completely partisan. I'm not trying to dictate how other people feel about it. I'm just trying to rationalise what's going on, because my own reaction to RDX is totally different.
Compare the four episodes so far with classics like Holoship, Marooned, The Inquisitor, Back to Reality, Thanks for the Memory, DNA, Justice, Dimension Jump or The Last Day, and it's like comparing Rimbaud with Rambo.
There are absolutely no moments of pathos in RDX, no serious moments, no soul-searching, no intellectual discussions, no psychological discussions, no political discussions... It's as if the programme just has to be silly all the time, whereas old Dwarf had time for more grown-up, contemplative material too, which substantiated the characters and was genuinely thought-provoking (for an intelligent person, not a space weevil).
The characters in RDX are one-dimensional - Rimmer woefully so. He's constantly in "embittered bureaucrat" mode, and either the writing or the actor (or both) can't shift him into other areas. Admittedly there is the stuff in Trojan, but that was appallingly done, both in terms of Barrie's acting ("why couldn't I have passed my damned! Astro! Navs!") and the writing (zero exploration of his feelings when his brother dies right in front of him).
The jokes... well, I'll grant (oops) that some of them are funny. Some of them are laugh-out-loud funny (moose, "he's getting closer", "did it work? No") but most of them, for me, just fall flat. And I'm not sitting there with a stony face saying to the TV "make me laugh with joy and gay abandon, rescue me from despair, convince me to smile" etc. On the contrary I'm going into each episode with an open mind, all charged up, ready to enjoy it.
But each one is a disappointment. In many ways, it feels like a programme aimed at a completely different type of person from S1-5 - someone who has never read a book, taken a stroll through a park on a rainy day, stood in awe at a painting, wondered about life in general, wondered about themselves and other people. There is just no depth to it whatsoever. Oh look, there's Lister being a slob! There's Lister being his own dad! Look, there's Rimmer being obnoxious! Ho ho ho! What surprising, complex and interesting characters these are! Crikey - I totally forgot about Keith Lemmon for 30 minutes!
I'll probably expand on this comment after the series has finished. (I've given up hope that RDX will snap out of its childishness and deliver any "substantial" episodes - though I will still watch Dear Dad and The Beginning, just in case.)
It has for me been the weakest season so far, it's nothing to do with their age or anything trivial like that. It's more to do with weaker storylines, and fewer gags.
Trojan was OK, it wasn't bad, it wasn't great. But it wasn't that funny either. I think I need to watch it a 3rd time.
It got better with Fathers and Suns, particularly Lister getting blind drunk and playing dad to himself losing his guitar in the process, that imo was a genuinely funny and original moment. I enjoyed that episode
Lemons on the other hand was particularly poor. The storyline was pretty much weak, the cat again had little to do, Rimmer was too wet and it could have been so much more.
For instance, the fact that Judas is Rimmer's middle name should have played a larger part in the story. I felt Rimmer should have devised a cunning plan to get Judas and Jesus to switch places, so Jesus is the unwitting betrayer and Judas being wrongly accused as being the messiah and thus crucified instead, just so Rimmer's middle name would sound more heroic. It would have naturally backfired, as by changing the past, Rimmer's middle name would also change accordingly, and maybe with added embarrassing consequence depending on what he fitted Jesus up for lol, so he would have to put it right again. It was an opportunity wasted.
Entangled was back to it's original brilliance though. If the next 2 episodes are anything like this then we've had a pretty good season overall.
I can see the gag you are going for there, but no. Just no.
A few more subtle ones like jesus wanting to cure kryten's head would have been good though
Funny in theory, but I'm not sure how it could work as a gag. JC would have to become presumptious that Kryten wanted his head somehow cured as I can't see Kryten asking or wanting it himself.
I still like my idea. It's kinda like the episodes "Statis Leak" and "Timeslides" where Rimmer tried to change his own history there. They were part of the main plot, not so subtle and in the better early seasons. Just Rimmer being Rimmer
That sounds like a dreadful idea and exactly the sort of obvious thing that occurred to nearly everyone when we first made the Jesus/Rimmer's middle name correction.
It would be a completely outlandish and trivial thing for Rimmer to try to alter history for.
I thought last nights episode was easily the strongest of the series, definitely my favourite so far (which admittedly isn't saying much). Still not as good as it used to be but light years better than "Lemmons" - which personally I thought was nothing short of atrocious. But yeah, last night it actually had me laughing and I would happily watch it again. Much much better!
Rimmer is a trivial space=crazy kinda guy when he wants to be
Whatever the criticisms of Red Dwarf X, it's a cosmic bucketload better than any current 'conventional' sitcom being shown on the BBC. Compare it to the likes of Miranda, Me and Mrs Jones and Not Going Out. The BBC must be kicking themselves (though they do have other things to worry about right now...)
It's certainly made me laugh more than any other sitcom this century.