Red Dwarf X's influence upon Rimmer

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by DAN_JMC, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    Was just thinking about this. In episode one meet Rimmer's brother Howard and find out he is also a chicken soup machine repair man. Then in episode six we find out his father wasn't really his father. But do the 2 points play against eachother? In Trojan you kind of figure that his brothers are as useless as him, but then in The Beginning you find out he isn't his father's son which is an explaination for his failings. Unless Howard was the gardener's son too.

    What do people feel about these changes to Rimmer's backstory and family? I'm not totally sure about them.

    Also had a funny thought. Of course this is not meant to be, but now looking back to the letter Rimmer gets in Better Than Life, maybe his mum DID write "your father is Dad" as in your father really is your father and not the gardener. She thought he'd become an officor and might have known about the message his father left him. I know this isn't the case, but just thought it was funny that it was a possible scenario
     
  2. codename_47

    codename_47 First Technician

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    It kind of explains why his brothers were so mean to him (queen of spain, etc).

    Maybe they knew he wasn't their fathers son so always resented him.

    God, his mother was a glad wasn't she? Bet she made the gardener use alphabetti spagetti too...
     
  3. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    ALPHABETTI SPAGHETTI!!???

    :lol:

    Isn't it also said in Me2 that all his brothers went to college but he didn't? Maybe they figured he was only the gardener's son and too stupid to go.
     
  4. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I think a lot of people are misinterpreting Doug's possible intention.

    I don't think Doug is saying Rimmer's failings are due to his genetics...because really, Rimmer ISN'T a failure...as he says, to someone like Dungo he has a career to be proud of.

    He's only a failure by the standard of his father who wanted him to achieve certain lofty goals in a profession that, when it all boils down to it, Rimmer isn't actually very interested in.

    Freed from that sense of having to please his father Rimmer is able to reassess who he is and realise that actually, by many people's standards he is doing okay for himself, he's a senior technician on an interstellar mining ship.

    I don't see these events leading to a quantum shift in his personality in future series though. He's still the same obnoxious smeghead; if anything his newfound bragging rights and bravado should make for an even more inflated sense of superiority. There are also some potentially funny situations I can forsee with the Lister and Rimmer "Working class" duo with Rimmer still trying to assert his superiority.

    Rimmer: "I'm not like you Lister, my father was a horticulturalist; a fashioner of new life. the only new life you've ever fashioned is growing inside your old coffee cup!"
     
  5. lemonhead

    lemonhead Second Technician

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    Well, Rimmer is technically still Lister's superior,and he "likes to boss people around." ;-) You're right, I think he'll still be a smeghead... just with not so many hang-ups now.
     
  6. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    was it the right direction to go in? Rimmer finding out the his father isn't really his father? after episodes like better then life where his death effected rimmer or marooned with the chest that was the only thing given to him by his father and rimmer is shown he just wanted to be accepted by his father and now we find out that man isn't his father?
     
  7. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    So? How does that effect those episodes? They happened in the past. Are you unable to watch Star Wars because Luke's relationship to Leia and Vader is changed completely in later movies?
     
  8. lemonhead

    lemonhead Second Technician

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    I don't think it bothers me too much because in the episodes as he still believes his father is his father, so it shouldn't really lessen the impact... but thats just my opinion. :-)
     
  9. suekay87

    suekay87 First Technician

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    Just a thought, but how can we know that Rimmer's father actually fathered any of the brothers?

    Arnie and Frank look identical
    Howard had the same career path as Arnie - he wanted to be in space corps but wound up a vending machine tech like his brother

    And then of course there's the suggestion that some of the brothers were fathered by their Uncle Frank.

    Were any of them actually Lecturer Rimmer's?

    Possibly John, maybe?
     
  10. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    We know his mum had several affairs. It wouldn't surprise me if none of the children were his. Maybe why they divorced?
     
  11. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    I think it makes a mess of his whole back story.

    A question would be, when people are watching Series 1-6 from now on will they consider that Dungo (really crap Doug - no pun intended) is his real father? Or will they watch it the way that Rob and Doug presumably originally planned it?
     
  12. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    Oh Lord, I've just realized why he was called Dungo. Dung - oh man, I'm slow.

    RDX is canonical and everything that happened... happened. When I watch 1-6 the revelation won't detract from my experience of it, if anything, it may gave me more empathy for Rimmer. I don't think that's a bad thing, though. So his 'dad' isn't his real dad, it's now fact and part of the show. I liked it. Made a lot of things make sense. Doug should now look to develop this idea, in my opinion.
     
  13. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    Interesting.

    Do you feel the same way about the end of Series 6 btw? Obviously Rob and Doug's idea was that Rimmer had saved the day. Doug then changed that in Series VII. Which is canon? :twisted:
     
  14. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    As I said earlier, when you watch Star Wars is it ruined for you because Empire and Jedi alter Luke's knowledge about his true family?
    Are the early series of Lost suddenly spoiled because you know that some of the twists that come later mean you will view some characters differently?
    You could make this argument about nearly any television series where characters evolve. It's not like Rob and Doug lied to you, Rimmer had those neuroses because he wanted to live up to someone's standards and because of his upbringing - changing who his biological father was doesn't change anything about his past or how he acted then, it only changes how he moves forward in the future.

    I really don't see what the complaint is. People are reacting as the show has somehow revealed Rimmer to have been lying all the time, like he really has been outed as that hand picked special agent for the space core from BTR. In reality its nothing of the kind. In fact I'd argue it'll be funnier watching him lord it over Lister in those early episodes now, knowing what he's going to discover later...exactly like Ouroboros gives an extra kick to Rimmer's implications on Lister's parentage in The Last Day.
     
  15. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    I don't think Doug changed anything, did he?

    Starbug was destroyed at the end of Out of Time, thus destroying the crew but leaving them with memories of what happened (as seen by Lister's video diary in Tikka to Ride). Rimmer didn't really change, although you could argue it affected his decision to become Ace. Rimmer didn't do anything in Out of Time except agree to go along with the plan. He didn't change at all until he buggered off. When he did that, I never quite believed it would be something he'd be good at. Hence my belief that he reverted back to old Rimmer, came back, found Red Dwarf resurrected but dying, rescued crap Rimmer before the ship exploded, and switched places with him. Until The Beginning, when thoughts of his cowardice, failures, and constant attempts to please dad resulted in him wanting to let go. And he did. And he saved the day. And now we wait to see if (hopefully), in affects him positively in some way.

    I think Chris would be up for that 'change'. He never liked playing a complete bastard. It'll be interesting.
     
  16. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    With better then life and marooned we was watching Rimmer just wanting his fathers approval, and what lister done to his wooden chest is mean't to be meaningful because its what his father gave him

    although now we can watch it and say pft doesn't matter he wasn't his real father so from our point of view lets just remember that =)
     
  17. suekay87

    suekay87 First Technician

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    I don't think it'll affect my viewing, cos what matters more is where Rimmer's mind was at during those episodes. So it won't in any way dampen my enjoyment of the older episodes.

    On another note, if they ever make Michael McGruder a character in the canon of the TV show instead of just the books, who think the actor that played the young Rimmer would be perfect for the role?
     
  18. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    It's mattered to him then, and he is still the father in the sense that he was the man that raised him. However it makes Rimmer now no longer feel the need to live upto his ideals from now and into the future.
     
  19. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    The difference is surely that the first six series were written by Grant Naylor. The later series weren't.

    So stuff in the later series about Lister being his own father, him suffering from claustrophobia, Rimmer not having saved the crew at the end of Out of Time, Howard being a failure too, Dungo being Rimmer's father etc. are problematic because they weren't written or planned by the original writing team.
     
  20. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    I was referring to the fact that Rob and Doug's original idea was that Rimmer saved the day at the end of Out of Time by destroying the time drive. I've read several fans say that they don't accept the explanation at the start of Series VII for this reason.
     

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