Rimmers Father

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, May 10, 2013.

  1. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Now i may be the only person who feels this way but i’m not a huge fan of the big reveal in the beginning, which is lecturer Rimmer revealing Arnold isn’t his son and his father is actually the gardener

    now one of my major issues with this the idea was that Rimmer blamed his parents for how he turned out which has sorta been stated in the early days as being just an excuse, with ace rimmer for example, but with the beginning we kinda get this conclusion Rimmer heritage explains who Rimmer is and lister cracks jokes how it makes sense now we find out who his real dad is and it kinda goes against the idea of the character and contradicts alot of things almost as if this is trying to explain Rimmers failures

    another issue i have with it is we heard storys of who Rimmers step dad was throught BTL and the inquisitor (half-crazed military failure), and through out most of The beginning he is suppose to be this demon holding Rimmer back so he is almost this bad guy, or at least this is the idea its trying to give the audience, then we get the holomessage from him where he states he didn’t want to hold Rimmer back and thats why he never told him he wasn’t his dad, which makes him sound like he cared about Rimmer and actually wanted Rimmer to succeed which is a big revelation really, but then he happly tells rimmer about his real heritage again becoming this almost bad person and reverts back to the demon, so what is he?

    while before this episode we could just say Rimmer had a strict dad and stuff, but i find it an even more bigger mystery now with this episode to why his step dad raised him in the first place, if he knew Rimmer wasn’t his son, if he knew his wife cheated?, and what about his brothers? doug has gone into Series 10 with Rimmers past in mind and opened alot of questions i feel personally

    Opinions?
     
  2. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I don't mind the reveal. I think Rimmer's issues have always been that he passes the buck, blaming others for his shortfalls. His family weren't great sure (and as the people who brought him up they can still take part of the blame, albeit not entirely via genetics in the father's case) but ultimately he is his own worse enemy.* I know they play the 'he is hopeless, regardless' card in some shows, yet he has always been more than that. Ace Rimmer is proof that he could be a far different person. Not that Ace is that great in some ways...




    *Last Human novel spoiler:


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    There is a particularly moment where Rimmer analyses his issues to another character near the end of the novel which illustrates this. It's a particularly frank, heart rending, poignant moment amidst all the comedy. One of my favourite passages in the novel.
     
  3. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    You're not alone. In fact one of the few things I disliked about Series X overall were the two surprise reveals about Rimmer, that his brother (well half brother now, presumably, I'm not sure we can even take that for granted anymore) was not the high-flying Space Corps test pilot he thought but in fact little better than Rimmer and that Rimmer's parentage was not what he thought.

    I'm really hoping that Series XI doesn't continue with more surprise reveals that upset a character's backstory like these, we had Lister really being his own father and Kryten really being designed as an insult/joke in VII, now Rimmer's background has been rewritten too. The only one of the current cast who hasn't had a surprise reveal so far IIRC has been Cat.
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    I agree, it feels a bit desperate when backstories are rewritten, like Doug has run of ideas so goes back to retcon stuff. Forgot about the Kryten thing, god that was terrible!
     
  5. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    problem is when doug does his big twist reveal origin for the characters he just ends up opening more questions
     
  6. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I had no idea about Kryten being designed as an insult/joke. I must've missed that bit. Did someone mention it in an interview?
     
  7. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    It's mentioned by Kryten in Beyond A Joke that the whole 4000 series was created by Professor Mammett to get back at the person who jilted her:

    "Well, she was due to marry John Warburton, a fellow bio-engineer. He jilted her the day before their wedding, so she decided to create a droid in his image - a pompous, ridiculous-looking, mother-hen clucking, irascible buffoon."
     
  8. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Aww... Poor Kryten... :-(
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Even before the reveal there has always been speculation that Rimmer was the bastard son of someone else, be it Uncle Frank or whoever.

    His blaming his own failures on his family don't change because of this newest revelation, whatever quick burst of euphoria he gained in The Beginning. Come series 11 he will be blaming his failures on genetics and cursing his mother jut as quickly.
     
  10. Number_58

    Number_58 Second Technician

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    Myes. I don't care for the reveal myself but Dennis Dungo providing the DNA doesn't suddenly mean that Rimmer is no longer a product of LECTURER Rimmer's parentage.

    And quite (johnhowardand)frankly, it says a lot about the Rimmer family patriarch if he thinks not being of the 'right' pedigree will mess Arnold up rather than, say, starving him or withholding affection.
     
  11. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I liked the episode 'the beginning' but the worst thing for me in the entire series was the reveal of Rimmers dad. I really loved the background storyline Rimmer had. The stuff with Rimmer coming to terms with his dads death in series 2 was good. Now it seems it was all wrong, the whole time. It's just like, what's the point?

    I think listers background storyline should end here, it hasn't been terrible and it's kinda funny, but enough.

    Krytens back story is just odd.

    I love waiting for god, with the whole race of cats idea. It's genius. I hope they don't change that. I'd like more of the same, but then you fear they may over do it and make it terrible.

    Hopefully they bring back kochanski.
     
  12. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    But in series 2 he was still mourning the man who raised him.

    And whilst we now know he wasn't actually his biological father, the man who raised him = dad. So in that basic sense it all still works perfectly for me...*shrugs*. Not much has changed really, has it?
     
  13. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    So it was pointless doing it then. . .:roll:
     
  14. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Depends how you look at. I really appreciate good characterisation which is something red dwarf did well, and the background histories were good. To change them ten seasons on, or 20 plus years later... It seems to me a bit totally random.

    On the other hand, the show is probably trying to re-ignite itself and fuel itself for more series. Therefore developing a few more backgrounds which may help for future stories and help acclimatise newer fans to the characters. Perhaps freeborn makes a valid point saying it doesn't really change anything. But it does serve to bring new fans into the show.

    I'd probably see series x as almost a new start for red dwarf, therefore the background stories on two huge characters probably served as a chance to resurrect new life and options into the show.
     
  15. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    No. Not for Rimmer.

    Although how much this revelation will affect him in the prolonged sense is something we don't yet know for sure either way...But it's gonna' be a lot of fun finding out.

    And besides it was, in my opinion an interesting story arc and an great episode, so why would it be pointless?

    When I said not much has changed I was refering to the back story. As in so far as I can tell it's not especially conflicted by this new information...unless I'm missing something here.

    Although I suppose some of it may depend on ones beliefs in regards to the whole nature vs nature debate.
     
  16. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Just to expand on a point I said, I didn't explain it well..

    Freeborn makes a valid point in that it doesn't change much for viewers who have been watching red dwarf from the early years. It's good a point that Rimmer was grieving his 'father figure' at the time.
    What it does do though, is give those newer viewers an insight into his background.

    A lot of us will be thinking about red dwarf as a whole series 1 to 10. Whereas Doug has a difficult job of keeping old fans happy but also including and bringing in new fans in the hope of newer series.
     
  17. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Really it was something that didn't need to be revealed, in many ways it felt like doug was trying to give an explanation as to why rimmer failed at everything and that was because his real father was just a gardener, an imbecile and has a lousy heritage and I think it would be a shame if that was what doug was trying to do because it takes the more well thought out logic of dimension jump and shrinks it Down into Your real dad is a loser and that's why you are a loser

    Its a shame after The Beginning doug can't reveal more about Rimmers step dad the one who brought him up because its odd this guy would raise rimmer at all if he knew he wasn't his and somehow cared enough not to tell him this
     
  18. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I don't think you see the full wider picture though "talkie."

    I don't think red dwarf x was written purely for old fans, I think Doug had a mighty difficult challenge on his hand to resurrect a series that many people may not even be aware of.

    I exclude series 9 in this because that came an went and no one batches an eye lid. So I'd imagine there would be a lot of newcomers to the show.

    So his writing has had to involve a) satisfying older fans b) including newer fans c) resurrecting a show d) writing towards newer series.

    So given that, I'm not surprised at the little details to characters backgrounds being re-hashed, even if it was slightly.
    Many have said one of the episodes in series x was a re-hash of queeg, well for older fans it could be like nostalgia and for newer fans they would be intrigued by it.

    I think Doug overall did supremely well and if the idea on the whole was to generate enough interest for extra series, then he has more than achieved this.
    I think the background story lines of characters have seeds of growth for fresh story lines and jokes for series to come..
     
  19. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    You are ranting about your own thing now Harry, its got nothing at all to do with anything I said
     
  20. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    Was watching Better Than Life the other day and Rimmer says something about divorcing his parents when he was 14. He hated his parents that much. Thought it didn't quite match up to what was going on in The Beginning since young Rimmer looked older than that. Funny how none of that really bitter ugly stuff where Rimmer disowned his parents was never brought up again.

    Also makes you wonder what kind of relationship Ace Rimmer had with his parents....
     

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