Rimmers Father

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by talkie3000, May 10, 2013.

  1. 74384338

    74384338 First Technician

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    I assume a good one, as he was kept down a year pretty early on (age seven, I think, according to Backwards the book). Also in Backwards (the book) the younger Ace Rimmer seemed to get on more with his mother and brothers at the least. (Last chapter: "The Difference - 2".)

    Could anyone actually get on with Rimmer's "father"? From what we've heard of him he seems pretty nasty. I think I'd prefer the gardener.
     
  2. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    thats something i find abit confusing about rimmers Father/step dad and that he is made out to be this nasty person, the demon in rimmers head but then this guy raised rimmer and didn't tell him the truth about his real father so arnold could achieve greatness before finding out the truth so by then it wouldn't matter.

    i mean we heard storys and descriptions of him by rimmer so we get the idea he was strict and "military failure" so we didn't need that gardener revelation to explain Rimmer but now we got it i think its a shame we can't get abit more information about Rimmers step dad and as to why he cared enough or at the very least felt rimmer should succeed as it would round out rimmers family life better.

    i think the problem with doug writing is that when he makes decision he often knows what he means in his head and how it all works and comes together but it doesn't translates well on screen sometimes
     
  3. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I don't think Rimmer's father does explain the reason for his character failings. The first episode showed that his brother wasn't much more successful than him, at least in the way Rimmer measures success. Of course the gardener could be his father too, but that's not the point.

    The point is that when Rimmer found out his true biological parentage he no longer allowed his daddy complex to hold him back from using his brain. His reasoning was still suspect (I.e. the fact he thinks 'Dungo' would be proud of him is due to the fact he considers his role of second technician higher than that of a gardener. A rather snobbish stance.) but it freed him somewhat to do what he needed to do. And it was all irrespective of genetics. It was all about his state of mind based on his mental focus. And to be fair, he still has a long way to go, but Ace has proven he has always had potential.
     
  4. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    The problem is. . .none of this is funny! :roll:
     
  5. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Exactly the same. The only difference is that Ace was kept down a year, as stated in the episode. . .:roll:

    So Ace's father was also the gardener. . .:roll:
     
  6. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    Why would it be the same? Ace would have probably got on a lot better with his parents since that decision is what toughened him up and that bitterness would have been stifled. He probably wouldn't have divorced his parents or had any hang ups. He would have probably become an officer and learned his true parentage long before our Rimmer. There's a good chance he probably went through life thinking his parents were actually right, since in his universe they did the right thing for him. It's evident that Ace has no hang ups because he's Ace. The thing that separates Rimmer from being Ace is that cloud of parental hang ups ruining every single thought in his head. The Beginning was kind of like Stoke Me A Clipper in that it revealed Ace was always part of Rimmer's potential.

    Even if Ace still hated his parents initially for their actions while he was a teen, even if he hated his parents deep down just as much he'd have probably changed some of his perception after meeting his screw up dead hologram alter ego in our universe at the least. He'd at least forgive them. Rimmer became even more jaded and bitter about his parents so it's safe to say Ace probably appreciated his parents a whole lot more after meeting a version of himself who had his fate adversely affected by a poor parenting decision.

    Someone as emotionally intelligent and smart as Ace probably dealt with his parents hang ups. I'd wager that since he wasn't flung 3 million years into his future he was probably such a charming son of a gun he managed to stay in contact fix his mother and fathers psychological issues. Would have been fun to have seen his parents in Dimension Jump, with his mother greeting him with warm hugs and his father being a coherent supportive guy who wouldn't just "sit by the window and dribble."

    Or his actions made no difference and his parents would still criticise him even though he became Space James Bond. Either way someone like Ace Rimmer is likely to have dealt with his daddy issues, or have a bunch of different ones.

    Maybe Ace actually met his real dad.

    Or maybe Ace completely detached himself from all parentage which was why he jumped at the chance to become a test pilot and traverse the multiverse (no ties).
     
  7. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    In the episode Dimension Jump Ace says "Don't quite understand the science, but it's got something to do with us living identical lives up until a certain point, where a decision was made, and you went one way, I went the other." The episode opens with the scene involving the decision, the letter from school about whether he will be held back a year. Ace doesn't mention anything else about his parental relationship, everything you say is pure baseless conjecture. . .:roll:
     
  8. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    I know it's baseless conjecture. That's why I used words like 'maybe' and 'I wonder'.

    Lighten up man, you're acting like Sheldon from Big Bang Theory..... not everyone deserves to be patronised and insulted and shot down because they aren't reciting cold hard facts and rules.
     
  9. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Never seen Big Bang Theory so the reference is lost on me. . .:?

    PS - when did I insult you?!? :roll:
     
  10. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I think I am right and talkie is wrong.
     
  11. Almighty_crj

    Almighty_crj First Technician

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    PRIEST: They left us behind. The sick and the lame. Left us to die, but then the boy was born to the cripple and the idiot.
    CAT: What idiot?
    PRIEST: Your father, boy.
    CAT: My father was a jelly-brain?
    PRIEST: Yes, that's why he ate his own feet.
    CAT: I did wonder.
     
  12. HonestTom

    HonestTom Skutter

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    I don't think the revelation changes Rimmer or his dad. Rimmer was still raised by the same bitter weirdo and adulterous, aloof mother he always was. The opening scene suggested to me that Rimmer Sr. really didn't like young Arnie. You could even interpret the message as being an attempt by Rimmer's dad at humiliation. "You're an officer now, but actually you're the bastard son of the gardener! Ha! Not so big now, are you?"

    What I didn't think worked was combining this with the revelation in Trojan that Howard was equally useless. It seemed that Trojan was saying, "Actually, all the Rimmers are rubbish, this is as good as it gets," while The Beginning was saying, on the contrary, "Rimmer's useless, but he's not really a Rimmer, so it's okay." I'd have preferred one or the other.
     
  13. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    In the end I take it all to mean that Rimmer is his own worst enemy. And in the end, he only really has himself to blame. Ace is proof of what he could have been. (Although Ace has... issues... too.)
     
  14. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    This is something that worries me about future Red Dwarf episodes, the way doug is fond of revealing surprising revelation or information about the crews past that we thought we knew but ends up being over ambitious and questionable

    i get the idea that there is a big fandom to impress and surprise but i'd like it if doug just concentrated on telling a good story rather then looking for surprises

    i'm still not fond of the dad revelation i think its questionable to what doug was trying to say with it and what Rimmers now step dad actually thought of him with the whole i didn't wanna tell you this because i didn't want it to hold you back from achieving your dreams but now its ok so screw you bastard child
     
  15. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Naughty naughty kyle. Bit of a swear word right there.
     
  16. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Actually if he's using it in the literal sense, I don't think it is swearing although it's not used much in that context nowadays.
     
  17. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Wow. You put more thought into it than Doug probably did. ;-)

    I'm also not a fan of this revelation and didn't like the episode.
     

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