Series 10!!!

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by SimplePlan2k8, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Nothing except for the fact that Kochanski had already been established as part of the crew/cast by the time Barrie returned for 8 and her presence in the show was said to be an important factor in pitching the planned movie. You might also want to note the part of my sentence that says "whatever the reasons behind it".

    Whether you think they are justifiable or not, Doug undoubtedly had reasons, now however he's taken the story in a direction where its perfectly feasable that he can write four man dwarf as a series for the first time. My point was that people often judge him on not being able to write a "classic Dwarf" series solo, erroneously believing Vii and Viii to be his efforts, when up until this point they forget that he hasn't actually tried.
     
  2. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    I'm not saying he didn't have reasons for the way he did it. I am just saying he definitely had the opportunity. The reasons are perfectly valid but saying he didn't have the opportunity is rubbish. And if 7 and 8 weren't his efforts whose were they?
     
  3. petetranter

    petetranter Catering Officer

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    That's kind of the whole four man Dwarf point I think.
    I & II with the original four, followed by III - V with Kryten but a much reduced Holly, then VI doing away with Holly completely.
    I was over the moon to see Norman back at the end of VII but in retrospect, I think it was a mistake bringing him back as he just didn't have the dialogue that made him such an important part of the show in the first two series.

    I always feel that Dwarf works much better as a foursome. If Normans Holly came back you'd need to lose Kryten to make it worthwhile. With Kryten, Holly becomes unnecessary as far as I'm concerned but if you're going to have a reduced Holly, then Hattie plays it better that way.
     
  4. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    It's not rubbish at all. He didn't have the opportunity in series 7 due to outside influences. Period. Your stement that "Chris Barrie left for part of series 7 but there was nothing to stop him using just the four original cast in the original setting" makes no sense. How could he use the original 4 characters when one of them was only going to commit enough filming time to use him in 2 full episodes. Flashbacks were the only other way to incorporate Rimmer into the other episodes he appears in. In series 8 Kochanski was already part of the cast so there was no logical way to suddenly remove her nor would it have made much sense to do so. Sure he didn't have to bring back the whole crew but that's another argument.

    To answer your latter question they were also the efforts of Paul Alexander, Robert Llewelyn, James Hendrie and Kim Fuller among others.

    It was indeed. It was also an excellent episode and a promising start to the new series (despite its continuity flaws). I've used it before as an example that Doug can write good Dwarf solo with the four man crew minus Kochanski. It arguably wasn't in the original setting though. Back to Earth was though (sort of) and for me it was also a success.
     
  5. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    I didn't pin it down to just series 7. In that one he did have the problem of Chris Barrie leaving but for 8 Chris Barrie was back and if Doug had wanted to he could have easily had just the four originals. He chose (for perfectly good reasons, but it was his choice) to do it the way he did it. He could have come up with plenty of ways of getting rid of Kochanski (I could probably come up with 5 and I'm not a writer). I'm not saying here he made the wrong decision in doing it the way he did, I'm just saying that if he wanted to he could have done it with the four originals.

    Yeah I know he had help but he was in charge of it. If they had done something he didn't like he could have changed it. I am fairly sure he wouldn't have just gone 'here Paul, write me a story then get it filmed - I don't want to know anything about it until it is aired'.
     
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I think the point that was made, though, was that that option wasn't available is Series VII and VIII were to part of the ramp-up to movie production, which they were. Kochanski needed to be in the cast to help that process, and Holly's role was useful in as much he, too, was a character in the film.
     
  7. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    coming in late here, but i reckon be cheeky and call it Red Dwarf 9 and a half ;-)

    Also with the studio audience, it's going to depend on budget and the actual scripts. If they use a style like series 1 aznd 2 (lots of bunk room scenes) then studio audience will work but not if they do lots of location stuff and effects. Given that this looks like a Dave production, the budget won't be huge so the former option may work better.

    I do love the studio audience but it also depends on if the shows are funny. Hearing the audience errupt in laughter for things that are not funny is very annoying. Many substandard sitcoms are made even more terrible like this.
     
  8. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    But it was still his choice. It was his choice to want to make the movie and while that is a valid reason for what he did there was still the option of doing it another way. I would think he was told 'if you want to get a movie, we recommend this' not 'if you want us to make this series you have to do this'. Of course I could be wrong and the BBC demanded Kochanski but I would be surprised if that was the case as everything I've heard so far indicates he chose to do it to try and get the movie going. I'm not saying he was wrong to do it, just that he did have the choice.
     
  9. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I know what your saying but I think it comes down to two different interpretations of "opportunity". My original point is that people often use VII and VIII's failures as an excuse to state that Red Dwarf is ssomehow worse off without Rob Grant or that Doug can't write what we think of as classic Dwarf. However, Tikka aside, the point I was originally making is that up until now he hasn't been trying to. In series Xii he had cast changes forced upon him so was effectively forced to write something different from episodes 2 onwards, wheras with series 8 the constraints of building up to the movie led him to use a larger cast which was always going to lead to a different end product.

    Now that he's free from both cast changes and movie pressures I think the next series will be the first time we can really judge Doug's solo work in the sense of him writing "classic four man dwarf" solo...if indeed that is the route he goes down. There's no point in saying that 7 and 8 show that he can't, because he effectively wasn't trying to with those series.

    If David Beckham gave up football to play tennis for two years we wouldn't say "boy, isn't Beckham useless at football these days" just because he was still involved with sport but wasn't doing what we recognised. Neither, I believe should we write off Doug's ability to do what he did consistently well for 6 series simply because for 2 series he tried something different.
     
  10. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Exactly. He's had his reasons for not doing it but that doesn't mean he couldn't have if he wanted to so saying he didn't have the opportunity is not quite true.

    Fair point although I don't think Dougs tennis is up to the standard of his football. And with his last effort I think he was trying to go ten pin bowling on the tennis court.
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    So it was all downhill after series XI then? ;-)
     
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    God! And we thought Doug had confused the newbies :roll:
     
  13. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Haven't been on the forum in months, and I don't 'twitter' - but I now have to say, Yes! Yes! and Yes again!!
     
  14. Rewcastle

    Rewcastle Second Technician

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    Hmm, by the looks of things - i'd say this thread has gone a little over the initial "do you wanna see a series 10?!?!" and instead has taken a scary twisted plunge into the depths of debate and discussion. Splitting hairs in such a way that even the very concept of "choice" and "opinion" is even being deciphered. So although i appreciate your romantic outburst of "Yes yes yes", i think it's presence in this overly evolved thread is less than ideal, sir
     
  15. Baxters_Hooch

    Baxters_Hooch Supply Officer

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    Yeah... series 12 was terrible... :lol:;-)
     
  16. Weevil

    Weevil Deck Sergeant

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    Oh come on it was way better than series 13;-)
     
  17. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Oh come on series 13 was the all time best series. But seriously lets hope Dwarf's new series is so successful that we do get a series 13 or even more.
     
  18. peas_and_korn

    peas_and_korn First Technician

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    Series 13 suffered from the decision to pay a series-long homage to Hitchhikers by giving Lister a second head.
     
  19. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    I always thought that series 14 was the best, what with Jonny Depp being in 2 of the episodes, and Groucho Marx being Holly. That just seemed to work really well for me.

    RAGE
     
  20. 7and8lover

    7and8lover Skutter

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    People who dont like series 7 and 8 love to assume most people share that opinion. Those series are what makes Red Dwarf what it is, otherwise it would just be an old dead sitcom that most people havnt heard of.Its the progression and survival that makes it a story rarther than just a television program, i remember the different stages of my life when each series was made. Also personally i love it for the sci-fi first, comedy second, and 7 and 8 take that to new heights, the emotion and character develpment are potentialy my favorite elements, and i know alot of you despise the mature lister and so on.
     

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