Series 7 gets better with time

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by OurJud, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    I can totally see your point - I do think Stoke Me A Clipper was one of the better s7 episodes (though still not good). Ace in series 4 was a genuinely likeable bloke who'd do anything for anyone. We got his backstory which helped humanise both him and regular Rimmer (the "Ace got held back a year" bit especially). Emohawk was Ace as a caricature, intentionally so, but that was carried over into SMAC. All we really got from Ace was that he seemed to be a smug, over-confident poser (see the rescue of Princess Bonjela, where he automatically assumes sex is on the cards - s4 Ace instead was ever the gentleman).

    Obviously it was intended for the audience to believe he was the original Ace (until the reveal that he wasn't) but you're right, he really wasn't written very well. And the whole "this is where you must be to become Ace Rimmer" bit on magic carpets flying through the mountains - seriously? Ace was Ace because he was humbled when he was held back a year and learned to rely on himself and get on well with people, not because of some random mysticism or inner peace.
     
  2. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    The cinematic look of series 7, particularly in Tikka to Ride and Ouroboros, gives it a grandeur. It makes it feel like a different, more American drama, show to start with but I got used to it, admired it and have nothing bad to say about bringing in Chloe Annette as Kochanski. She is fiesty, she is vulnerable, she is posh, she is earthily sarcastic. It was Chris Barrie's decision to have a break for a bit to make A Prince Among Men - they were bringing her in regardless of that. Unfortunately series 8's scripts did her no favours where she's just a stooge (literally, like one of The Three Stooges as one of the Dibbley family).

    Duct Soup is strangely underrated. I love the scenes in the tunnels, particularly Cat's lines 'Boy is it cooped!' 'If I was dead you could not swing me around in here!' "A swishy, swirly, thing". To me, it's like a mini Marooned. And they get soaked! Such fun!

    Rob Grant's departure was felt but The Rimmer Experience was a great segment and it was only in the last 2 or 3 episodes, as the comedy became more typical sitcom with Kochanski , so subtle in earlier episodes, reduced to nagging Kryten, that I really thought 'Oh dear. Is this ever going to be the same?' I still think that now. Doug Naylor just seems to want it to be what it never was - doing next to nothing on a spaceship. Where are the high concepts and villains? An old simulant - what??
     
  3. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    There is nae enough time left in the universe for series 7 to get better...
     
  4. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    A couple of the end shots from TtR are very impressive indeed, in terms of cinematics; namely the one where they're all lined up behind the fence looking at Jeff Kay, and just after this as he walks away from a static, low-set camera.

    Not sure what you're saying here. The first two series were exactly that - the three of them 'doing next to nothing on a spaceship' - and are what I, and a good few others, consider to be the best of the lot.
     
  5. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    In the first few series, I'm more drawn to the likes of Future Echoes, Better than Life, Polymorph where they're doing lots of scifi stuff. It just dates the least but I can see that the sets in the first few series with the serious music (just in 1 and 2 I think?) and all that early banter did give it a sense of gravitas and real tragi-comedy.

    Is your photo of Lister from Holoship? Maybe a still not taken during a show as he wouldn't have been looking at the camera. I can't remember if Lister's seen with a cigarette before that episode. He looks a bit younger and more curry stained - maybe series 4. Or 3.
     
  6. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Not sure about my avatar - I suspect it's a publicity shot. I just googled images of RD for a suitable pic and found that.
     
  7. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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  8. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    Whoa! Those are ace. I may have to print them off as little trading card sized photos!
     
  9. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    I totally agree about Tikka to Ride - it is amongst my top 10 favourite Red Dwarf episodes ever. Despite it having more of an emphasis on drama (which is effective anyway, even moving at times), it is still rather funny and despite it not being quite as humorous as in the earlier series for me it pretty much carries on from where 6 left off. The story is one of the best in RD history with all the exciting "timey-wimey" time travel and locations.

    Stoke Me a Clipper, though I know most don't appreciate it as much as I do on this board is almost as great IMHO - like I said in my earlier post for me it is when Chris leaves that the series largely deteriorates.
     
  10. DivineVarod

    DivineVarod Catering Officer

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    No, actually ...

    In Dreamwatch magazine of February 1997 (before making PAMM) Chris says that him leaving the show was Dougs idea: "I agreed with Ed and Doug that I should maybe just do four of the shows: two full episodes and two with flashbacks to Rimmer. But having seen the way the new series has been produced, and as you'll see in the episode in which I leave the exciting potential in Series Eight for Rimmer to come back is just enormous and I look forward to it in many ways more than I look forward to anything else."
     
  11. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    For Chris Barrie's choice of the word 'agreed', maybe consider it could slightly be a euphemism for 'asked' or even told.

    It was preferable to spreading Rimmer's scenes suspiciously thinly through 8 episodes. Chris was a little preferring closed sets than live studio audience filming at the time too (Naylor decided this would fit in with practising for making a RD film anyway). At that very particular time, Chris did not want to commit to a full 8 shows. Yes, perhaps it's possible he'd have agreed to 6 but I can imagine that, if he'd seemed hesitant, Naylor may have decided to try out other character dynamics (not just with Kochanski) so Barrie as Rimmer could return for series 8 in full. So Barrie still did, overall, the previous average of 6 episodes per series. I don't know if Barrie had been told before his decision that a new portrayal of Kochanski was to be introduced as a regular crew member to try to make it more likely that funding for a film would be raised. Well, despite some fine early episodes from Chloe Annette, later scripts including series 8's limp treatment of all but Rimmer and Lister might not have helped that cause unless you count Back to Reality as your film.

    I recently bought a second hand book of the Red Dwarf series 8 scripts from a comic book store. It said that Grant Naylor Productions were already contracted to make series 7 and 8. Naylor wasn't keen on doing another Red Dwarf series as his writing partner Grant had left. (Like the early days of The Beatles (my words), Naylor liked having a co-writer. Like the later days of The Beatles, Grant would have sometimes liked to write an episode on his own.) Writing partner-less, Naylor would have preferred to either do something other than Red Dwarf or to make a Red Dwarf film. The BBC made it clear they wanted the 2 series before anything else would be considered. Naylor obliged with 16 episodes in total (instead of the usual 6 episodes per series) because, as his agent told him, that would make 52 episodes in total, 1 for every week of the year, a magic number for the show to be regularly shown in America.
     
  12. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    I don't think that's "agreed with" as in "they suggested it and I agreed". It's pretty widely accepted/reported that it was Chris' decision to move on (and that he changed his mind when he enjoyed making VII). I think when he says "I agreed with Ed and Doug..." what he means is that they came to a mutual agreement about how much of it he would do, after he stated his decision to leave.
     
  13. DivineVarod

    DivineVarod Catering Officer

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    Maybe. I recently bought quite a few Sci Fi magazines from that time period (series 7 promotion) with interviews from the cast and most of them go against most of the more widely reported "facts". Chris is incredibly positive in all of them, saying he wanted to do more episodes and couldn't wait for series 8. He said he never wanted to leave the show ...
     
  14. Mowgli

    Mowgli Third Technician

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    For all its increased budget and stylised look, series 7 just feels a bit bland in a comic sense . Tikka to Ride is excellent, I can get on board with Stoke Me a Clipper but there's little else bar a few individual moments to really keep me laughing. When I contrast that with the previous six series which had such a wealth of great lines and moments it really does pale in comparison.
     

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