Series VII and VIII Hate

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by ori-STUDFARM, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    many do wish red dwarf had stopped in 1993

    while i have mixed feelings about it, i mean if RDX turns out to be a great series then for me it will be a shame it has continuity with a series i dont really enjoy (Series 8 and to a certain extent BTE)
     
  2. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Quiet, you.
     
  3. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    You really hate how The Office & Fawlty Towers ended on a high? I think that works in their favour. Many sitcoms, RD included, outstay their welcome continuing well past their time. A sitcom is very different to drama, a sitcom actually thrives on familiarity - characters that conform to certain types & a fixed location. When writers stray from their premise too much it shows they have run out of ideas but are afraid to quit & move on to something new. Keep things fresh? I'd rather they kept thinga funny! As for 6 hours not having enough to sustain interest/discussion. Movies are not that long but have fan longevity.
     
  4. kippervindaloo

    kippervindaloo Skutter

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    I have recently watched the boxeset from start to finish and as much as series 1&2 will always be my favourite I did find series 8 more watchable this time around (hated it the first time though) 7 was a bid drab though, and id almost forgotten how funny gunmen was:lol:
     
  5. IoHouse

    IoHouse First Technician

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    I did this over easter too, and I have to say Im very fond of Series 8 now, I watched it through 3 times in random order and in order and I think its actually quite amazing. The male bonding between Lister and Rimmer is good TV and trying to get through that 'tapping on the pipe' scene in Pete without laughing is a miracle. :eek:
     
  6. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    As much as I'm not much given to hate for any Red Dwarf series, Over the last couple of months when work's been a bit slow I watched all the series up to the end of series VI. Then, I simply had no inclination to watch any further. Apart from Back to Earth, series VII is my least favourite series. I'll get round to watching series VII, VIII and BTE eventually (and I'm looking forward to VIII). But I've been off work recovering from surgery for two weeks, and at no point have I thought, 'I think I'll just stick series VII in the DVD player.'
     
  7. IoHouse

    IoHouse First Technician

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    Maybe VII and VIII appeals to me because Im female? I just think these two series are just lovely in many ways. Like a nice hot mug of cocoa on a winters night. :?
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I doubt it is anything to do with gender. When I watched the whole series through with my girlfriend (her first RD experience after BTE) she didn't mind series 7 so much but when it got to Series 8 she turned to me and asked "Did they change the writers or something?". People have talked about the show often shifting in style, i.e series 3 being a big departure from 1 and 2 or series 6 being suddenly very rapid fire in its gag rate but none of those shifts (which should have been more pronounced watching the whole thing through in one go without the seperation of months/years we original Dwarf followers had) made her react in the way series 8 did.

    It wasn't necessarily unfunny in its own right. It just didn't feel like Red Dwarf.
     
  9. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I don't know. I love series VIII. I find it fresh and funny, even with the 'silliness' and the annoying repetative humour. But after having watched six great series, the thought of pushing through series VII and still having to end with BTE, even with series VIII between the two, is still something I'm not enthusiastic about. The thing is, I'll do it because there are scatterings of moments in series VII that I find really funny and interesting, so I'll never just not watch it and skip to series VIII. I'm always tempted to not bother with BTE, though.
     
  10. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    see i can totally see why she would think there were different writers as when watching it i can't actally believe its from the same writer who wrote the last 7 series
     
  11. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    It's not. Thats why.
     
  12. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    I like this analogy a lot.
     
  13. supercat

    supercat Console Officer

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    And maybe we now have something different to talk about next time we're both in the chat room :-)
     
  14. 1234564

    1234564 Third Technician

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    Disclaimer: all the below is totally my opinion and theories, I claim none of it to be fact.


    The problem with a big proportion a 'fanbase' of anything whether it's a TV show, a sports team, a video games series, a movie franchise etc. is to them something is either amazing or an abomination. In fanbases only those two polar opposites seem to exist. There is nothing in between, no 'not bad', no 'decent', no 'OK', no 'good, but not as good as...'.

    I do think it would've been very hard for VII and VIII to ever please the majority of fans. To an extent they were almost doomed to fail.

    a) with VII being Red Dwarf's 'first grand' return, coming back after a 4 year hiatus and having to live up to 6 previous which were adored by fans, VII a mountain of expectation weighing on it's shoulders.
    b) VII and VIII had a load of changes from the previous series, both enforced and non-enforced. VII had to deal with the departure of one of the two writers, the departure one of the four main characters and the introduction of a new main character - these were pretty dramatic changes, albeit ones that were forced upon the show. Most people don't like the idea of something they love changing, they might try and be open-minded but it's usually impossible not to be apprehensive. Could the show work without Rimmer? Could Naylor be able to produce the goods without Grant?

    These two factors make for a dangerous mix. People were both expectant because it was finally returning, but also apprehensive due to the big changes. The hype had to be lived up to and the fears had to be allayed. VII had to be almost perfect to be accepted, it had to be at least as good as the previous series', 'good, but not as good as the others' or 'OK' wouldn't cut it. VII was good as, but it wasn't as good as I-VI, and with fanbases being like they are especially when big expectation mixed with apprehension is involved, 'good, but as good as...' simply doesn't exist, if it's not fantastic then the only other thing it can be is: "IT'S HORRIBLE! I HATE IT! I WISH IT WAS NEVER MADE!".

    With series VIII the hype wouldn't have been anywhere near as big, but the big changes again were there. Grant was still gone, but Rimmer and Holly were back along with Red Dwarf itself. Promising signs. If it was just Lister, Cat, Rimmer, Holly on Red Dwarf (maybe having Kochanski there would've been acceptable well) and Starbug then perhaps people would've been softer on it because it was a clear attempt to get back to the old format. With there not being so much hype and less apprehension (sort of a middle ground, almost apathetic) it might've got away with not being up to I-VI's high standards. But instead Doug Naylor decided to take a massive gamble, totally ripping the format apart, by reviving the crew and putting the cast in prison (Porridge in space). Big change again, big apprehension again, and again it needed to be almost perfect to be accepted. Once again it was only 'good, but not as good as..', and once again it wasn't accepted by fans.

    They were never accepted by the general fanbase, and still aren't. With them I feel a sort of 'anti-fanboyism' exists. A fanboy tends to adore everything about his chosen thing and completely overlooks/refuses to accept and faults it may have. An anti-fanboy however tends to loath everything about his chosen thing and completely overlooks/refuses to accept any good qualities it may have. VII and VIII do have numerous bits that range from 'a bit naff' to totally cringe worthy (something that didn't happen in I-VI, maybe the former a handful of times, but certainly not the latter), but they also contain some really excellent episodes and some golden moments. The anti-fanboys, the big part of the Red Dwarf fanbase that hang off the 'it should've ended in 1993' bandwagon refuse to acknowledge the good parts of VII and VIII and simply give the old, tunnel-visioned "it's 100% crap in every single way, there's no redeeming qualities. Shut up that bit was crap too, so was that bit". That might be an exaggeration, but it seems a lot of people refuse to even give them a chance by refusing to even watch them again.

    I also think hating VII, VIII, BtE and X (yeah, before it's even came out) happens to be cool and newer fans jump on the bandwagon. Although that's not something that's exclusive to RD or fanbases in general, hating stuff and being negative about everything seems to be trendy nowadays, especially in popular culture.


    I think VII and VIII are without doubt the weakest of the series', but I still really like them. I'll watch them and see numerous bits that just make me think 'bleh' but I'll also see numerous bits which are absolute gold, and in my opinion are some of the best in RD history. As someone who prefers to focus more on the good side of things rather than only the negative, the latter far outweighs the former. If other people did the same the two series' would be a lot more respected I feel.
     
  15. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    For me my opinions have never been swayed by what is considered cool or not but my own personal view points. However VII, VIII and BTE all range from troubled to flat out bad but at the same time they all did something right that the other didn't. I personally think that Red Dwarf began to show a decline in quality in series 6, which while a lot of fun seemed to trade in too much on past success and running gags that were wearing out their welcome. Series 7 if nothing else shock up the show after a season that was starting to feel formulaic, the season was still for the most part clever but suffered from the fact the ensemble was broken with the loss of Rimmer and the clumsy introduction of Kochanski who just never seemed to fit, series 7 isn't as bad as people say but it does suffer. Series 8 we had Rimmer and Holly back.....and that's about all the good I can really say for it, the problem is that it's entire premise flies in the face of everything Red Dwarf is founded on and the writing became astoundingly juvenile. BTE can be credited for wiping the slate clean after how bogged down everything got and kinda needed to go back to status quo, however it was an over bloated self referential story that, a mess of 4th wall jokes and Blade Runner references, it just wasn't very entertaining. It kinda seems to me that if you put all the positive traits of the season together then you could actually have a pretty good season but alone you have 1 merely decent one and 2 really bad ones......Here's hoping that X can pull those elements together and filter out the bad to make "one glorious whole".
     
  16. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Honestly I kinda like the "drab and depressing" feel because in that since series 7 captured the feeling of isolation more then any other, for all it's fault series VII was nothing if not atmospheric. I still there there was still some quality humour there and a few classic moments......for me it was the loss of Rimmer the season suffered for most.
     
  17. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I'm not sure the views of fanbases are quite that black and white but I think you have a good point. Things do seem to get exaggerated in fans' minds. The amount of times I've seen fans state 'that was total rubbish' of a programme that was average or actually pretty good, if not great. (Granted, these things are subjective.) I'm not referring just to Red Dwarf here but fanbases in general. I also think the majority view can sometimes sway other fans opinions too, but to be fair, there are plenty who aren't afraid to have their own opinions.

    As way of example, I seem to remember when Alien Vs Predator came out (or it might have been the sequel.). I remember one particular person on another board stating after seeing it "It wasn't great but it wasn't bad.", or words to that effect. Now, the majority of reviewers tend to slate the films in the AvP franchise. Some time later this same guy spoke about how abysmal he thought the film to be. Now, it's quite possible that his esteem of the film went down over time, and this had nothing to do with the majority peer views, but I do wonder if general opinion on the boards was a swaying factor.*

    Back to Red Dwarf: I believe series VII and VIII had the largest viewing figures in Red Dwarf history, which is somewhat telling. They might not have been fan favourites but it seems they pulled in an audience just fine.

    Oh, and I really like Series VII overall. And while VIII made me wince in places it wasn't bad as a whole.

    *As for me, I really like the Alien and Predator films, and while I thought AvP:R was way to dark (visually) I didn't actually have much of a problem with the AvP crossover films, although they're probably not as good as the other films.
     
  18. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Hi, i liked the alien films alot, and the predator films (well, 1 and 2) alot.

    Alien vs predator was horribleness for me. predator and the human making friends and running off into the distance like batman and robin? AGGHGHGHAGHAGHGAHGAHGAHGA.



    and I like red dwarf 7 and 8, i defend it. You cant expect a show to go for 8 series. and not change slightly or evolve or try new things... Throughout the years red dwarf evolved and changed slightly and it was at series 5 it reached its peak funniest from it.. I don't expect the new series of red dwarf to be the same as we're used to or expecting either. I haven't been to recordings so i may well be wrong as people are reporting its back to old red dwarf. However its not enough to convince it wont feel different.
     
  19. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    The way I see it this is the difference between a "fan" and a "fanboy". The latter is in the extreme categories you've mentioned above, whereas the former are far less black-and-white in their perception of a show, team, game, etc.

    Sadly, there seems to be a growing number of fanboys in the world, although it may be more accurate to say we are simply seeing more fanboys these days.
     
  20. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i can forgive series 7 in a way because there was such a big change with rob grant and chris barrie leaving and the terrible CGI shots being brought in because the model shots didnt work out to well, but with series 8 there was no excuse for any of it
     

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