RDXI Series XI Villains

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Dismembers, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. Dismembers

    Dismembers Deck Sergeant

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    Series XI had some pretty cool bad guys, what were your favourites?

    For me:

    1. Asclepius: Very creepy and sinister, great look, great voice. Was he actually a villain though?
    2. Butler: I know some may say he wasn't a villain but for me he was, and a great one. Smarmy, self righteous and so smug you just want to smack him.
    3. Expanoids: Ok these guys were definitely the bad guys, weren't they? I loved having Kevin Eldon in Red Dwarf, such a good fit and I enjoyed their bickering at the end.


    Any you didn't like?
     
  2. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    I think I would agree with your list.

    I have to say, I'm perhaps a slight bit disappointed in the Polymorph from Can of Worms. I actually really like the episode, generally, and I think it was one of the stronger episodes from the series. I also think that the dead polymorph we see was actually quite impressive! So my only disappointment is we didn't actually see the Polymorph in action much like the first time we saw it. If there had been time in the episode, the guys finding and killing the thing would have been quite exciting.
     
  3. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    One thing I kinda liked about the Polymorphs is that they still almost seemed to be acting like they were young, they tried to make themselves look cute, but the most complex thing they could do to deceive the Dwarfers was just imitate everything they were doing.
     
  4. Dismembers

    Dismembers Deck Sergeant

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    I think the thing about the Polymorphs was that they didn't really act like polymorphs, they were more like Psirens, taking on a form to 'seduce' the dwarfers rather than to illicit an emotional reaction.
     
  5. Abe but more Halloween themed

    Abe but more Halloween themed Deck Sergeant

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    I actually really loved both the Rimmer monster and the enemy of fate from Samsara.
     
  6. McCloud

    McCloud Third Technician

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    It was a good batch of villains this year but Asclepius just for his look and the whole atmosphere provided for his character with the decaying space station shone a little brighter than the others.
     
  7. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Yet Polymorphs have transformed to act seductively before, ironically towards Cat aswell in the first Polymorph episode (though here it was to lay her eggs). Also the Psirens wouldn't have kept Cat alive, where as here they were intending keep him alive to feed of his emotions. Actually most of their use of transforming in this episode seemed them just trying to survive, rather then really being on the attack....so their behaviour not typically seen with either Polymorphs or Psirens.
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I raised this point in another thread already but there is a train of thought that none of the villains are "villains" as such.

    Expanoids:Trying to save humanity from a possibly fatal obsession with tecnology.

    Asclepius: Trying to save Lister's life with a kidney transplant.

    Mercenoid: trying to rid the universe of a dangerous lifeform.
     
  9. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    They weren't designed for evil and because they were seeing out their own programing they claimed to be the "good guys", but they indiscriminately killed people and even admitted doing so for their own personal amusement. Even if you ignore any debates of if people should be in control of their own destiny....the fact they killed people for fun makes them villains!

    Asclepius wasn't a villain but he certainly was insane and unballanced, which while his intentions were good....you really can't blame the Dwarfers for being scared of him as he was pretty unhinged.

    Yeah......they totally screwed up there.
     
  10. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

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    Interesting that you see Butler as a villain as I really don't. Sure, he's a smarmy git. But a villain? I don't think he would intentionally harm anyone and his motivations were always to better Kryten. I do think he is a brilliant character though.

    As for my favourite XI villains:
    1. Asclepius
    2. Expanoids
    3. Mercenoid
    4. Polymorphs
     
  11. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Thing is Asclepius (as creepy and insane as he was) and the Mercenoid weren't villians though! Asclepius Was trying to help Lister even if his sanity chip had worn out millions of years ago, and Mercenoid was trying to sacrifice himself to destroy a larger threat. The fact that as intimidating as both of them were, their intentions were good!

    Really when you look at it, the villains this series were in order of appearance:

    1. Expanoids (Even if they claimed otherwise)
    2. Rimmer Monster
    3. Polymorphs
     
  12. Dismembers

    Dismembers Deck Sergeant

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    I totally get that its controversial calling Butler a 'villain' but I think there is a case. Ok he's not in the mould of GELFs (who weren't that villainy either in the end) or Polymorphs but I still think he was an antagonist. More of a 'soap opera' baddie who you want to see get his comeuppance, pretending to be this nice guy but really he's an arrogant twerp who constantly tries to humiliate Kryetn.
     
  13. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Hmm, I find this discussion about Butler particularly interesting. My own views are more in-line with those of Dan Pendo. Only I'd take it one step further. Not only do I think Butler is a nice guy/mechanoid, I don't even perceive him as especially smarmy. I mean, sure, he may come across as quite proud and perhaps a tad self-important, but for me the actor's portrayal just about managed to avoid coming across as overly smug and smarmy. But only just! For me he had just the right balance of mild smugness to be amusing but not annoying and unlikable.

    And my initial thought about this was that, had he failed at that, had he overstepped the mark by portraying the character as arrogantly and intentionally rubbing Kryten's face in it (which I really don't think he did), it may have ruined the episode for me personally.

    However, in light of this discussion, perhaps it wouldn't have ruined it after all, maybe it would just put a different spin on Kryten's reaction (or how I perceived his reaction). Which to some extent seems to be the case with some fans who found Butler particularly annoying. I may be wrong but some fans appear to be looking at it from the perspective of being in Kryten's shoes. Whereas I relate more to the reactions of Rimmer, Lister and Cat. As as such, while I'm sympathetic to Kryten's reaction and can certainly understand and empathise with why he feels the way he does, I really don't think Butler is the problem; the problem, from my point of view, is what kryten envisions him to represent in comparison to his own achievements or lack of them.

    So from this perspective, it's not really an external problem at all; it's Kryten's internal/psychological problem. To quote a great spiritual philosopher, pirate captain Jack Sparrow: "The problem is not the problem; the problem is your attitude about the problem."

    Had Kryten achieved the things Butler has, and if he wasn't going through a midlife crisis and had a little more self-esteem and a more positive outlook on life, he may have perceived Butler quite differently.

    For me, far from perceiving him as a villain or even an antagonist, I see him more along the lines of Kryten's equivalent to Ace Rimmer.

    And with that in mind, I'd be genuinely interested to know if those who found Butler especially annoying, arrogant and antagonistic feel the same way about Ace.

    Either way, it's interesting that there are different perspectives on this. And I like that it seems to work both ways without fans feeling disappointed. And as such it could be argued that there is no definitive right or wrong here, given that to an extent it appears to come down to personal interpretation. :-)

    That aside, my personal favourite villains from the series are:

    1. Asclepius
    2. The Exponoids
    3. Mercenoid
     
  14. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I think Butler is far too well meaning to ever be considered a villain, yes his incredibly pretentious but he actually wants to help Kryten out of him midlife crisis. I have a theory about Butler in that what made him reach the potential he has was though meeting the Universe, it inspired him to reach greater heights and that's why he wanted Kryten to meet the Universe himself. While none of this is directly said in the episode (other then Butler having already known The Universe for a long time), it seems to make sense with everything he did.
     
  15. Dismembers

    Dismembers Deck Sergeant

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    Oh absolutely, in fact I was thinking about a post comparing Ace and Butler, I think they are very similar. Both 'on our side' so to speak but would be pretty unbearable to be around for any long period of time. I get people's surprise at Butler being referred to as a villain and of course you have to use it in its loosest sense. Remember he left to save the life of a GELF, who despise humans.

    Imagine a parallel universe with Ace, Butler, Kochanski's 'Dave' and well....our Cat. They would all just sit around Red Dwarf licking themselves all day.
     
  16. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Asclepius from Give and Take and the Mercenoid from Can of Worms were cool villains
     
  17. Chris D

    Chris D Engineer

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    I feel like we didn't see enough of some of the villains. Some of the series' best villains only featured as a small portion of the overall story.

    I'm sure we'll see some good ones in XII but I hope they feature for a larger part of the story.
     

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