Should BTE be considered classic series?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by shizuo340, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    I don't think so. Any other opinions?
     
  2. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    But as u just said, it was a come back not a classic
     
  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    No, and not for the reasons given above.

    "Classic" imo refers to more than just quality (otherwise we'd have to ringfence series 1-6) of episode (and I DO like BTE) it's about era.

    BTE is part of the Dave era of the show wheras the classic era for me is the BBC series produced in that timeframe.
     
  4. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I don't think there's an objective definition of what would qualify as classic, or any clear definition of the word. However, if someone talked to me about "classic Dwarf", I'd assume they meant series I-VIII. Based purely on their judgements of quality, I'm sure others would rate only series I-VI as classic. In the case of the conferences on this forum, the word is being used to differentiate between the current series and older series, purely for ease of use. I don't have any issues with doing that for that reason, but in any other context I doubt I'd think it a likely application of the word "classic" to Red Dwarf.
     
  5. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    In the context of this forum, "classic" is not a qualitative judgement.

    In terms of splitting the forum section, there is "current" Dwarf and "classic" Dwarf. If you don't like to think of BTE as "classic", then think of this section as being called "Past Red Dwarf" instead.

    There's no debate to be had here, basically.
     
  6. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    I personally don't see cclassic as qualitative but as a designation of era, eg classic doctor who or classic classic comedy
    I personally do not believe that BTE falls into that era but in the end I'm just one man
     
  7. suekay87

    suekay87 First Technician

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    I think there should be two forums: 'Red Dwarf from 88 - 99', and 'Red Dwarf from 09 onwards'. Or call them 'BBC' and 'Dave'

    I find the title 'classic' for the forum to be a little misleading.

    IMO classic should count all episodes until Rimmer leaves to become Ace, and simply because it was the single biggest change to have happened since the show started. Obviouslly Holly had gone, but he/she's such a minor character in comparison. I don't count VII and VIII as classic because as I stated - lack of Rimmer in VII, and then with VIII the whole scope of the show changed when the crew came back.
     
  8. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    Here here. Although for practical reasons keep season 7 and 8. I sly ester McCoy is just as classic as William Hartnel (but death to Paul megan)
     
  9. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    Whatever happens bte and byond
     
  10. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    No.
    Classic Red Dwarf is 1 - 6.
    The original writing team.
    It is no longer classic after the departure of Rob Grant as the original vision of the show was lost. :x
     
  11. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    Yes but in later comparison they are classic. What would u have those series named? The transitional? The intermediate? The smegged up?
     
  12. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Rubbish Red Dwarf that should NOT exist!!!!!!!!!!!!
    No thanks for those memories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    :x
     
  13. jaykhunter

    jaykhunter Second Technician

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    You could argue that 7-8 weren't classic as well. But definitely BTE is NOT classic dwarf! It's like a decade later than the last season :-)
     
  14. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    Funnily enough I expected Red Dwarf Back to Earth to be, well, Red Dwarf first and foremost.

    For me, I didn't think BtE was irredeemably terrible, but IMO it wasn't good and was a long, long way from being a masterpiece by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.

    As to why people dislike it, I think for many of us, myself included, it was precisely because it was really quite disappointing. After all the time that had passed what we ended up with is essentially a re-hash of Back to Reality with a bit too much Bladerunner and with some really bad scenes mixed in for good measure (I'm thinking of the diving bell scenes and the awful bit toward the end with Lister controlling the others through the typewriter... urgh.....), and the Coronation Street set bit which should have been left on the cutting room floor. As ever, this is all just my opinion here, but I'd need to see a hell of a lot more originality there just for a start before I'd even consider using terms like "Masterpiece" or "Work of Art".

    For me, this was Red Dwarf at its weakest by a clear margin (Still better than a lot of other comedy out there though) and I certainly didn't see a particularly strong or deep story there. There are a couple of strong, deep scenes, but they're not enough to make it a strong story on their own.

    As for the original question, no I don't think Back to Earth should be considered a Classic Series, if for no better reason than I don't really think it should be considered a Series in the first place.
     
  15. Reznor

    Reznor Guest

    as was said in the other BTE thread made by dodge ....dunno why this one was made rightt after but suree (where the hell were you on that one bluey!?!) :P
     
  16. shizuo340

    shizuo340 First Technician

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    I dint mean is it a classic series I means should it be considered as part of the classic era
     
  17. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    As another poster has said, BTE was a rehash of Back to Reality (an infinitely superior episode where the concept of the squid worked much better) and contained far too many Blade Runner references. It has to be seen as the most self-indulgent thing that Doug has ever done (and that includes the Blue Midget dance).

    On top of that, it was silly and slapstick and many of the comedy scenes like the ironing sneezes, Lister at the typewriter, the cast in the Kabin etc. are painfully and self-consciously unfunny imo.

    If the 2 Kochanski scenes could have been used as the start and end of a 30 minute episode then that might have worked but as it was it dragged on far too long.
     
  18. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    Really? That poster was wrong! I'm no BTE fan, and I agree Back To Reality was superior, but that statement is about as shallow an attempt at justifying not liking something as they come. I don't remember Back To Reality involving the cultural references or exploring Lister's sense of worth as the person he really is in the way BTE did. BTE is no more a rehash of Back To Reality than Back To Reality is a rehash of Better Than Life, or The Inquisitor is of Justice, or Emohawk is of Polymorph, or Duct Soup is of Marooned. The odd similarity between episodes set in a particular universe doesn't mean rehash. I don't like BTE very much because I don't find it particularly funny, gripping or compelling. I'm sure the despair squid idea could have been reused any number of ways that I would enjoy, just as Red Dwarf has reused alternate realities many ways that I've enjoyed.

    EDIT Having had that little rant, I think I'd vote for this thread being locked. The question of why BTE is included in the "Classic Dwarf" conference has been answered by Seb, and the discussion about what is considered to be some golden age of the show and whether BTE is actually any good is being had in half the threads on the forum anyway.
     
  19. BruceFivesyth

    BruceFivesyth Third Technician

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    Maybe rehash is the wrong word but there is no way that you could sensibly argue that Duct Soup and Marooned are as similar as Back to Reality and Back to Earth. No way. The last third of Emohawk is a 'rehash' of Polymorph btw.

    Using a squid that causes the crew to hallucinate is a much bigger similarity than anything that had been used in Dwarf eps up to that point with the possibly exception of Emohawk (and I don't even like the fact that Rob and Doug used that episode to make a triple sequel). It was a very uninspired and clumsy method of taking Doug where we wanted to go (this sort of clumsiness had already been witnessed in Tikka to Ride and Duct Soup).
     
  20. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    Inquisitor and Justice are completely different, I don't know why you mention those together, but as far as Emohawk/Polymorph and Duct Soup/Marooned, those are often unfavourable comparisons which get made not unfrequently.

    Did Better than Life also involve the crew suffering hallucinations after being affected by the ink of an alien squid like creature and being trapped in an imaginary world where they are not really who they thought they were and which makes them question their own identity and values? There is no comparison between Better than Life and Back to Reality at all.

    As for it being a shallow attempt at justifying disliking it, I take it you didn't actually properly read what I wrote, which is that the reason I am less than keen (and from what I can gather this is not an uncommon view) on BtE is partly because after a decade with no new Red Dwarf I found it disappointing to see a big chunk of what was the story behind a much earlier episode being reused. I would have much rather seen a completely new and fresh idea as the basis of the episode.

    As for the cultural references, I take it that you're referring to either the heavy handed homage to Bladerunner (Yes, I know it was supposed to be obvious) but I found it was disappointing to see so much of the episode time devoted to someone else's idea and story, unless you meant the Coronation Street bit and/or the scenes set on our (rather than the Bladerunner style) Earth, neither of which I'd hold up as particularly strong points of Back to Earth, quite the opposite really IMO.
     

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