Should Holly ever return?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by betelgeuse, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    I've been in the frame of mind for years that Holly should return to Red Dwarf in a future series. Then I was thinking of how Holly would be incorporated into storylines and I've come to the conclusion that maybe Holly is a superfluous character and would be hard to work into episodes.

    I wondered what everyone's opinion was as to whether Holly should return or not...and if she were to return, in what capacity?

    Perhaps we are due an episode where Norman Lovett makes one final cameo as Holly, in the process putting the character to bed once and for all as well???
     
  2. Dismembers

    Dismembers Deck Sergeant

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    I think the Holly character has run its course to be honest, Kryten killed it. In series 3-5 Hattie Hayridge had about ten lines altogther, perhaps excluding White Hole which was the closest we got to a female Holly episode.

    I think if there was a Holly it would be a case of 'finding things for them to say' rather than them adding value to the show. I am an 'avid' fan though so if Holly (either version) were to make a cameo in XI or XII I'll be happy with that.
     
  3. pad_ehh

    pad_ehh Catering Officer

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    Wasn't it already mentioned in another thread that Norman appeared to let the cat out of the bag regarding Holly and an apparent appearance in XI or XII? Or maybe he will be popping up in the mobile game instead? Either way, he said he "wasn't finished with Red Dwarf" then said "I probably shouldn't have said that really".
     
  4. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Please be mindful of the spoiler policy in this thread. I don't want to know if Holly is/isn't in the new series.
     
  5. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Holly was pretty good in seasons one and two with the occasional funny line and to give the others another character that they could interact with. But the character's been pointless since season three with the introduction of Kryten and the move to more ambitious episodes where a character that's entirely confined to computer screens isn't much use to the writers. I really don't want to see Holly return permanently, especially if it's the female version since I really, really disliked Hattie's version of the character, but I like your idea of a one-off appearance from Norman. I really don't see that happening though - especially after Norman's behaviour after he found out that he wasn't going to feature in Back to Earth.
     
  6. Captain_Star

    Captain_Star Third Technician

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    The show needs Holly in some form for the simple reason... Who's running the ship?

    I'd settle for Robert Llewellyn pulling double duty as a pre-recorded Holly, his new face explained away as a software patch from Kryten.
     
  7. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I don't think Holly works as a main character any more - not easily, anyway - but there's no reason why he or she couldn't be around and steal the odd scene.

    I think it would be fine if Holly had a couple of quips an episode, and maybe one story per series with a more developed role. Because of the nature of the character, he could just quietly float on monitors in the meantime.

    I mean, the ship already has minor characters in the form of vending machines, skutters, Talkie Toaster, etc.. Holly could just be chief among the "extras".
     
  8. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

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    I'd be happy to see Norman Lovett again, although I've got a mild preference for Hattie to get another go. But I would rather have a completely different actor than Robert Llewellyn.
     
  9. Captain_Star

    Captain_Star Third Technician

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    I'd prefer Norman or Hattie. I was thinking using Robert would save budget, if that was an issue.
     
  10. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    I don't mind either way tbh. It would be nice to see a return of the ship's computer but on the other hand like another poster said once Kryten joined full-time the character wasn't needed so much for exposition anymore. Anyway the exposition was rightly handed to the android character as Holly was meant to be computer senile anyway.

    But anyway the Holly character may be a positive for the humour however (I enjoyed some of Norman Lovett's lines in series 8 though I understand most would not agree) but then again series 6 was arguably the best series so far (those previous 2 words show I am hoping for a quality series 11/12;-) ) of the lot and that had no Holly character.

    I just can't decide. It depends on the writing obviously I guess.

    Happy New Red Dwarf Eve once again btw!:-D
     
  11. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    I always thought there were a number of Kryten lines in III to VI which Holly could have delivered beautifully. I have always thought that Kryten is a bog-bot service droid and so would not necessarily know the answer to every single thing. Holly could have used some of those lines. I know Holly has an IQ of 6 but is good on certain things as the Queeg episode highlights. Therefore, there could have been a good mix of Holly and Kryten dialogue and even then there could have been good interplay between the two characters about who was right etc....
     
  12. Kaladron

    Kaladron Third Technician

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    Long time lurker here but I need to express myself on this one...

    I totally disagree that Kryten makes Holly redundant. Red Dwarf is a character based show but these two characters are nothing alike. They're polar opposites in fact. Kryten is a people pleaser, eager to better himself. Holly is a slightly cynical and eccentric old man with a razor sharp wit. Yes, they're both in a servitude role but their personalities are totally different.

    What's more, there is no one else on the show who has the same personality as Holly (particularly the Norman Lovett incarnation) - so he feels like a missing part of the conversation to me and a missed opportunity for some great comedy.

    Now, I think the real reason Holly doesn't work in most post-series 2 Red Dwarf is that the show became more mobile. There were fewer bunkroom scenes with the crew out and about on adventures and I just don't think Holly's style - not to mention his static physical nature - works very well on the go.

    Ironically, I think he would have worked much better in series 10 than I suspect he would in 11/12 as most of that series was in fact a return to bunkroom scenes and long conversations. I think the medibot and Pree show that on this kind of episode there's a place for a talking head cahracter like Holly.

    On a personal note, I just love Norman Lovett's style of humour and miss it. I'd rather have Red Dwarf with him than without him any day.
     
  13. mtullock

    mtullock First Technician

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    Totally agree. The pree episode esp could have been a great corrupted holly ep.....maybe too queegish tho.
     
  14. betelgeuse

    betelgeuse Catering Officer

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    Well I'd love Holly to return...but imagined if I was writing the series that I'd struggle to incorporate her / him because Kryten takes most of the relevent Holly lines anyway. Though I agree; perhaps Holly could return as a superfluous background character, less integral as he was in early series, and more akin to the other electronic tech characters such as the vending machines.
     
  15. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    One of the biggest pulls for me at the beginning of Red Dwarf was Holly. Really loved his input into the whole show, especially the bit he said at the start. But I'm not sure a return of Holly would be worthwhile anymore. Kryten has sort of taken that role over and I think things should be left as the four of them.
    That's hard for me to say, but I think that's for the best!
     
  16. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Catering Officer

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    In my own honest opinion, original Holly was far superior to kryren
     
  17. FeeBee

    FeeBee Deck Sergeant

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    I love Holly, I wouldn't even mind it it bounced between Norman and Hattie. It could easily be explained away as a result of the boys not bringing Holly back online properly. I love both Norman and Hattie as Holly.
     
  18. Captain_Star

    Captain_Star Third Technician

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    I'm hoping that the design of Kryten's chest screen has returned to full size to display a certain character.
     
  19. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    While I understand people's points that Kryten took over much of Holly's exposition, from a continuity point of view it does bug me a bit that she/he is no longer around. Why? Mainly that episode White Hole. Holly went off-line and the ship was in jeopardy. Okay, I guess the issues were mainly due to the fact the ship had to conserve power due to Holly's exponentially shortened life-span (although, I'm not sure why that would affect the whole ship) and they just happened across a white hole during that period. But the general impression seemed to be that Red Dwarf could not function without Holly. As the main computer, I figured he/she was literally the brain of the ship. In a real sense, Holly WAS Red Dwarf.

    So how is the ship controlled without Holly? I guess they've had plenty of time to rig up other computers of the more conventional kind, lacking AI. Some kind of explanation would have been nice. But I think they should bring him back. He needn't feature in every episode. Sometimes she might might just appear as a head on the screens in the background, which wouldn't require the presence of the actor every episode as that stuff can be taken from recordings and reused. But I think he/she should be there .
     
  20. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Kryten didn't take any of hollys lines or part away, kryten didn't get the same sorta jokes holly did, its just the show had evolved at that point and look what happened when they tried to integrate it back into the show with Series 8? apparently norman didn't wanna do exposition where he explain sciencey stuff he just wanted holly to tell jokes and thats what we got and he ended up just popping up every so often to give comedic bad advice and that was it.
     

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