So about that Series VIII resolution...

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Stirmaster, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Stirmaster

    Stirmaster Third Technician

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    True, The Beginning was one of the best episodes since Grant left, and true, I can see why Naylor's not tying himself down to any specific explanation, but that doesn't change how much the total lack of the promised explanation of what happened after Only The Good narked me right off.

    Might as well start speculating about what happened - what do you think?
     
  2. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    What "promise" was this then? I remember Mr. Naylor stating that the Dwarfers have a discussion about those events in Episode 6.

    Promise fulfilled.:lol:
     
  3. Stirmaster

    Stirmaster Third Technician

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    Someone find that Twitter post (still loath to sign up)...
     
  4. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

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    I thought that was the best resolution he could give. No matter what resolution Doug Naylor could have given about the cliffhanger, there would always be fans to shoot him down for it and complain. At the end of the day, the resolution to that cliffhanger is not important and I don't think it's necessary to explain. Doug Naylor is a genius for including the non-explanation, one of my favourite parts of the episode. Not only is he acknowledging the event, he's telling the fans to shut up about wanting a resolution because it is not important. Brilliant!
     
  5. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Only the good was a Lousy episode honestly, I actually thought the fake out was a good gag.
     
  6. Dsnow_con

    Dsnow_con Third Technician

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    It definitely was a good gag and that for me is the important thing- it was funny and it kept with the character of show.

    Red Dwarf has never been about continuity or consistency in the details. The heart of it, the humour, the boys from the dwarf, their wacky, absurd and occasionally touching journey through time and space, that's what matters. If occasionally there are some loose ends and they jump from A to Q, that's fine with me. And if they can laugh it off with a wink and a nod, all the better I say!
     
  7. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    This isn't a word I'd use much to describe anything post-series VI, but as far as I'm concerned, as a loyal Dwarf fan since series' I's original airing, the allusion to the "Only The Good" ending, and how it was dealt with was sheer GENIUS on the part of Doug Naylor. There's two things about it that I feel warrants that word being used for it. One, it felt totally in keeping with the series' up to that point, it felt totally like classic Dwarf, and secondly, perhaps more importantly, it was funny! Acknowledging the incident was a nice nod and a wink to the fans, and the way the resolution was teased but ultimately not delivered was keeping in spirit with the classic series'. As some fans have already mentioned it, had a resolution been given, there are some fans who would have been unhappy with it. How Doug handled that was perfect, it was one of the best aspects of a magnificent episode overall. :-)

    Edit: Dsnow was making the same points as me at the exactly same time. Freaky! lol xD
     
  8. suekay87

    suekay87 First Technician

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    The only thing I'd like to know is what happened to the Rimmers. What Rimmer is on Red Dwarf? Is ours still out being Ace? Did the living Rimmer die at the of series VIII? Is our current Rimmer an amalgam of the two?
     
  9. SedatedTabloidReader

    SedatedTabloidReader Skutter

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    Perhaps he could just made series IX?
     
  10. mccollough

    mccollough First Technician

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    I knew I'd read something about this somewhere... and then found its on this very website in the guide for series VIII

    I like the idea that after kicking death in the nuts, Rimmer runs into his Acey counterpart, who, being the devilishly heroic fellow he is, has come to save the day. Unfortunately, though he is successful in saving Red Dwarf, the crew has long gone in the escape pods. The dwarfers survive in an escape that involves living arnie sacrificing himself.

    Though the dwarfers offer Ace Rimmer the chance to stay on board with them, he opts to continue adventuring as Ace. He loads his pre-ace memory onto a hardlight disk, and the crew continue with a duplicate which has all the memories of both counterparts.

    It is this new fusion Rimmer which we enjoy the company of in BTE and RDX.

    I might have to write a fan fic of this xD
     
  11. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    I'd still prefer it if Ace switched places with series 8 Rimmer for two reasons: one, I felt no affinity for series 8 Rimmer, he just felt like a new character and it would be more difficult to accept him if that was the case, and two, I can't believe our Rimmer would be good as Ace. I'd think he'd want to give it up and series 8 Rimmer would jump at the chance.

    But to each and their own.
     
  12. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

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    Agree with Ally on this. Watching 'Nano Rimmer' always made me see him a someone else.
     
  13. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    I totally agree also.

    When Rimmer was resurrected, he lost an entire 7 (well, 6 and a bit) series of character development. In addition, he wasn't even a hologram. Not only was he not the 'real' Rimmer, but was a substitute in name-only thanks to the fact that the very thing that made Rimmer such an interesting character in Series 1 (his dead, revived as a hologram status) was completely absent.

    As you may or may not be aware, the ending of "Only the Good" was changed at the last minute. There wasn't supposed to be any sort of cliffhanger, but was later altered presumably to keep us on the edge of out seats in anticipation of a Series IX at least partially due to the fact that there was such a large time gap between Series VII and VIII. It promised a continuation would eventually be forthcoming... but nobody knew that it would take over a decade.

    The original ending (and, indeed, the closest thing we have to a 'canon' resolution to the cliffhanger) exists as raw footage that some people are claiming appears as a DVD extra. Wherever it originated, it's now viewable on Youtube and is cool because it's a scene written by Doug Naylor that's exactly the sort of explanation we'd have gotten.

    The problem is, a decade later, folks have not only taken this scene into their own personal "canon", but others have come up with their own unique explanations. Back To Earth complicated this further by returning Rimmer's holographic status (which is not part of the alternate Only The Good ending), prompting even more theories. Unfortunately this makes things difficult - on the one hand many of us have already moved on, others would hate the idea of our own personal "canon" for the last decade being retconned by 5 minutes in the new series. While a real explanation would be nice to some of us, it would be too problematic for others.

    The way things are is the "sweet middle ground" - Red Dwarf is back where it belongs. Rimmer's back to being a hologram, the fact he was resurrected in Series VIII is being ignored. Nothing is being contradicted, but nothing is being dwelled on either.

    I'm quite happy with things this way. I'd rather Red Dwarf focussed solely on going onwards and upwards, rather than telling me how wrong I've been for the past decade for no good reason. At the end of the day the cliffhanger resolution isn't important - at best it might cause some of us to go "ah, so THAT's what happened!". The time away has given Red Dwarf a chance to 'reset' Rimmer back to how he always should have been, easily, without giving a smeg :lol:
     
  14. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    I've seen the alternate ending but people seem to keep referencing to an 'original ending'. Whether it's the same or not, I don't know (I presume so since I can't find another ending anywhere), but I prefer the broadcast version. I found it more emotional and dramatic. It worked better as an ending for me.

    I wouldn't know if it's on the extras. I don't have that DVD. I'm saving the space on the shelf for... air.
     
  15. ShrunkenPixel

    ShrunkenPixel Second Technician

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    There are (from what I can tell) two videos up on Youtube.

    There's the 'original' ending. This was the ending that was filmed initially, before the decision was made to cut and replace it with the cliffhanger we eventually received. The footage is raw as it hasn't been processed in the same way that broadcast material is tweaked and fixed.

    There's also the 'alternate' ending. This is essentially a fan-made sequence that ties the 'original' ending in with footage of the ending we got, to basically show the sequence as that fan assumes the sequence was originally intended to be incorporated. It's a good sequence, but the way it's portrayed does have that 'fan-made' aspect which may or may not be accurate.

    I'll agree with you however... the sequence we got was far more powerful and provided an incredibly memorable cliffhanger. I've no doubt however than had a Series IX been produced the following year, the unused footage may have been used in the resolution so we could have ultimately had both endings worked into the program. That was years ago now though, and it's no longer as convenient or relevant to dwell on that particular cliffhanger except to invoke the 'denied' aspect that's bugged the fan-base for over a decade.
     
  16. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    Indeed. I found two, both lacking the impact of the original.

    I don't think the show has ever gotten as sad as it did in Only The Good. Adiago for Strings in the background is so beautiful and sad because only a few years later it would be ruined by chavs.

    I like it being open-ended. Everyone has a different theory and can you imagine how insufferable the group of fans who got it right would be? They'd never stop bragging. No solution would ever satisfy everyone.

    It was perfect... let's leave it at that.
     
  17. ghastly98

    ghastly98 First Technician

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    I like it being open ended. But... I do like to think about what happened :lol:

    So... Nano Rimsy runs down the corridor, and finds the microbe eating a hole in the hull, which causes decompression. He grabs onto something as much as he can, when suddenly it stops. Ace Rimmer has crashed his ship by mistake which plugged up the hole. He helps Rimmer fix the gun and memorize the formula for the microbe, and make it in the mirror universe. They take it back to the regular ship and now that it's the antidote, the ship is saved. Ace decides to stay due to his ego, "looks like things are going pretty badly without me around!" and has Nano Rimsy become the next Ace.

    As for the crew, they destabilize and die due to being imperfect copies. A funeral is held for everyone.

    The rest, we all know.
     
  18. Ally1990

    Ally1990 First Technician

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    The majority seem to believe Ace is involved somehow, so there's some sort of unity among fans. The theories aren't that different. Great minds think alike. I suppose.
     
  19. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I am currently uploading a tweaked version of the episode + that footage re-edited + some new things up to youtube which I'm hoping will satisfyingly fix all the series 8-10 plot-holes about Rimmer, the nano-crew and how the guys survived. Some parts will be predictable for those who have seen the DVD deleted footage, but there is some material that is also original, and some things that have been re-edited in a way that makes it all make sense and doesn't feel undwarfish at all. Also Danny JJ sings in it, and no, it's not tongue-tied :-D
     
  20. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    There is a youtube link posted in the Classic Dwarf section now...
     

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