So when are people going to admit that series X

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Springyard, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    wasn't all that good?

    Why don't they meet anyone interesting for a scifi show anymore? Where's the feeling of transcending the smegginess that the High ship, Holoship or Legion gave us?

    Who lied to Doug Naylor that we just wanted series 1 the remake? IMDB ratings show that series 5, with its 'heavy sci-fi' (and heavily alternate versions of the crew) concepts is the overall favourite with voters. Probably not in terms of jokes as many are visual but in terms of scifi mood / production values I would say. Series 6 was more popular than Naylor realises too, Legion and the GELF wedding being 2 great highlights for me. The BBC should not be underestimated on this.
     
  2. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    I was happy to admit this by the end of episode one, and 'wasn't all that good' would have been very generous. I watched the series on its original airing - with growing sorrow - and haven't bothered with any repeat viewings since.

    Oh, if only this is what we'd got. Series one and two are my favourite by a long shot, and series X was similar in no way shape or form, unfortunately.
     
  3. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    I was thinking mainly of the vending machine episode. The rest of the series isn't very series 1 I suppose.
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    It's a funny thing, series X. Unlike all previous series, there's no overall feel and style to the episodes. Dear Dave does indeed feel as though it's an attempt to recreate the style of series 1, Entangled is a bit of a 5/6 mashup, Fathers and Suns has something of a laid-back series 7 feel to it, and The Beginning feels like something new entirely. Overall, despite not being overly impressed with some of the episodes, I felt very positive to series X at the time it aired. There's still a lot I enjoy - who can't love the double Lister scene? - but worryingly, unlike all the best episodes and series, I find it much less impressive and funny each time I revisit it and find it pretty tiresome in parts (for example the overlong charades moment in Dear Dave).

    I've recently been rewatching some classic-era episodes, and some of the jokes in those still make me laugh - some of them still make me laugh even when I already know the line that's coming up. The jokes in X just can't do this to me. I laughed the first time but not the second.

    The place where Doug absolutely, clearly fails the most in series X though is those Rimmer/Lister scenes. Try as he might, the Rimmer/Lister conversations, which have always been such a pivotal part of Red Dwarf, just never even look as if they're going to come close to the standard of the classic-era two-handers. I can't put my finger on why this is, but something about the series X conversations feels off.

    As much as I hate to say it, I do think the show's lost its lustre. I'm looking forward to series 11 and 12 still, but not with the enthusiasm of old.
     
  5. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I fully admit that series X was a mixed bag, though honestly if you are familiar with series X's production then you'd know why there was so little in regards to scifi concepts and that has entirely to do with budget. He had to scale down and even throw out 2 whole scripts shortly before filming because he had less money to work with then he's thought. Further more you do hear a lot of fans claim the the first 2 seasons were the best, I firmly disagree with them but they are there and often very vocal about it.
     
  6. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Why would I "admit" something I don't believe in the slightest?
     
  7. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I'm never a fan of posts and threads that start with the premise that others should admit/accept a certain perspective, it presumes that the original poster's point of view is ultimately indisputably correct and everyone who disagrees is wrong, they just don't realise it yet.

    And no, I'm not going to admit anything of the sort any time soon. I enjoyed RDX, I still do on rewatching it, it might not be Red Dwarf at it's very best IMO (But that's subjective of course and not something I'd ask or expect other people to admit or accept) but it's definitely not Red Dwarf at its weakest. It was certainly better than a lot of other shows out there.

    All just subjective opinion of course.
     
  8. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Series X does have its problems, it's probably around the series 7 mark for me where some of its good, some of its very bad and the rest is just ok
     
  9. Springyard

    Springyard Third Technician

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    Fair enough. I did say 'all that good' instead of 'any good' though so I was deliberately torpedoing my own submarine a little. All that good in terms of ideas rather than jokes. I'll say there's no problem with most of the actors, particularly Charles and John Jules who appear more enthusiastic with each series, but lack of budget is a big problem it seems. No filming outside in a backlot anymore with smoke flares and flames going off, which always gave the show a mystery. Kryten's head looks weird to me like he's a woman and there is something a little off with his performance to me.
     
  10. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Im not going to admit to that - I liked series X.
     
  11. djmcbell

    djmcbell Supply Officer

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    I liked RDX - but not by a huge amount. It was good Red Dwarf - better, in my opinion, that series 7 or 8 (and of course BTE), but not as good as the others. To me, it did feel watered down and just not quite there, sort of a "Red Dwarf Lite".

    As I say though, I still liked it. It had several funny bits, and I liked some of the stories. It just lacked a good amount of pace and consistency that we came to expect from Red Dwarf in its best moments. Fortunately, from what I've seen of the new ones, I think a lot of this should he rectified.

    As an aside, again I'll say that I liked RDX (though not as much as other series), but I'll just ask if the reason people are being hard on it is because we can be, online? Back when the other series came out there was nothing like this community and this information where people can nit-pick, critique and have their opinions heard and added to. If there was, would we have all had a moan at, say, Camille? Yes, RDX isn't the best - to me it's probably got "6 average episodes of Red Dwarf" (not including series 7 and 8), but when you think about it, that's still 6 average episodes of Red Dwarf that we've got :-)
     
  12. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    I've droned on at length as to why I dislike series X so much, mostly during its original airing, but the biggest problem for me is how little it feels like Red Dwarf. I can't pretend the cast's declining years or Kryten's God-awful mask don't play a part in this opinion, but more than this I get a distinct sense the cast know nothing is gelling anymore. Like Bluey alludes to, the dialogue just doesn't feel 'right', and Rimmer X has changed so much that he's not even a shadow of the former Rimmer. To paraphrase Kryten, he's 97% less weasly, and not in a good way.

    And I still maintain the fact that the series has been picked up by Dave plays a huge factor in my dislike. Forget the fact that we now have to endure commercial breaks, the series simply wouldn't have looked so cheap if the BBC had wanted to revive it. And yes, I know RD has always had a meagre budget and terrible SFX, even when with the BBC, but the passion in the original series was clear for fans to see, even if the execution wasn't always the best. That passion just isn't there any more.

    RDX plays and feels like a pantomime of original Red Dwarf.

    I suppose to be fair I really need to force myself to watch a few episodes again, just to see if my opinion has changed, but I fear it will only compound it.
     
  13. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    I liked series X. I still put it on all the time. I will admit I don't like Trojan. For a first episode I was worried, the model shots looked awful, I didn't like the story, I hated the B story of the shopping network, Sim Crawford was awful...I rwas really worried. But the rest I really enjoyed, that first week I was pretty scared. But I loved the rest, even dear dave I like.

    Lemons and the beginning I put on all the time. I think it is far better than 8 or BTE and better than the Kochanski episodes of 7.
     
  14. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    I guess 'round about the same time some people realize their opinion isn't the only one that matters?
     
  15. Mowgli

    Mowgli Third Technician

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    If I was to rank every series of Red Dwarf I have to say X would certainly be in the lower half of the table but that has nothing to do with not liking it, more of a reflection of just how good many preceding series were. It's a consistently funny, sometimes hilarious, spirited run of episodes that everyone involved clearly had their heart in so even if it falls short of the show's high water marks there's nothing to hate. Indeed, Ten actually managed to breathe new life and get some strong laughs out of aspects of the show I actively disliked. Doug managed to take the idea of Lister being his own dad (his single worst writing decision, every time I watch that story unfold my brain just screams "????????") and turned it into the hilarious 'Fathers and Suns'. I'd probably place X in around 7th place above (in no particular order) series 7, 8 and 9.
     
  16. FeeBee

    FeeBee Deck Sergeant

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    I would rank X higher then BTE and 8. I enjoyed X a lot and still re-watch it even now even though it is on the lower end of the scale.
     
  17. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    I know I have repeated myself a lot over this X issue but although I don't think it is quite up there with classic Dwarf it is a very good series, definitely a return to form and the best of the Doug Naylor solo efforts. In fact I even prefer it to series I so for me it is around the middle of my list in terms of favourite Red Dwarfs.

    When I re-watched series X last year, I thoroughly enjoyed it and along with series IV and V they were my favourite Red Dwarfs to see again at that time. Fathers and Suns - that is 1 ep. that is definitely up there with classic RD and I wonder whether it should have been shown first though I suppose Trojan had to go out first to set up a bit of a Rimmer story arc.

    The Beginning and Entangled and are almost, pretty much classic too.

    I enjoyed re-watching Lemons so much back in 2015 that I wonder whether that could be up there with the vintage RDs. Maybe not one of the very top late 88 to 93 episodes but one of them. Once you are used to the plot hole it is a really funny episode and as a religious satire I think it is even better than Waiting for Good IMHO.

    I think Trojan is pretty good myself too and the only weaker one is Dear Dave though even that is pulled out of being average by some great comedy - the letters plot, finger wetting machine, Rimmer training his hands for a subbutteo tournament. In fact it has some of the greatest comedy of the series it's just it is let down somewhat by one or two weak subplots.

    I also do agree the Rimmer-Lister dialogue especially though very funny sometimes isn't up there with the peak years. For me although X is largely not up there with the best of RD it still remains very enjoyable and a welcome return.

    If as another poster has said the writing in the two new series is even better and tighter then maybe we can have some Red Dwarf that is back up there with the best. We will see, certainly sounds promising.
     
  18. Aractus

    Aractus Third Technician

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    A lot of it's down to taste. I really liked series 8 - if you take out "Pete" anyway. My favourite episode in series X was Lemons but they made an unforgivable error by counting "Jesus's age" from, 1BC instead of 1AD.
     
  19. Ant E

    Ant E Flight Co-Ordinator

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    It was ok. I'm going to make the shock statement that I think Back to Earth was better than Series X and I don't get why people don't like it.

    It was more dramatic of series 7 style, but I don't get why that's a big issue!?!

    I wish they would do cliffhangers and story arks though!

    Series 12 however (the ep I saw) was BRILLIANT!!
     
  20. Laylora

    Laylora First Technician

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    I was very pleased with series X. I felt like it was as close to vintage RD as we're likely to get. I'm super confident about loving the new material.
     

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