Some points to clear up?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by newkemall, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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    I LOVED Trojan, however I have a few of questions about the plot Im sure you can help me clear up..

    1. If Dave Lister is the last man alive, who are the simulants "up rising against"? Also, havent simulants already risen up against humans and enslaved them (series 4 and 6)?
    2. How is there still an active Space Corp 3 million years into deep space - with a last human alive situation etc etc? I can understand there still being ships and people refering to each other as being from the Corp, but they seem to be talking about it like its still very much active? Rimmer's brother seemed quite accepting that they were an active Corp crew and he seemed to come from one himself before the attack..
    3. I believed that Kryten referred to the ships computer who made the decision to award Rimmer's brother after his death. He then refered in the plural by saying "they decided". Who are "they"?
    4. Where did the pig race come from if it was live? If it was recorded, how can they be taking bets?
    5. What is the deal with betting currency? Has there been any mention of requiring money before? I always assumed they just scavange and use items as they find them and the dispensers never asked for money in the past series.

    6. Just a funny point - Im guessing that there were no humans on board Rimmer's brother's ship and he is the only hologram (1 per ship) - why on earth was the vending machine repairman brought back and not the captain? Maybe one day they can make a joke about always bringing the vending machine man back when everyone on board dies? lol

    Im not putting the show or the plot down, I love Red Dwarf and Trojan. I just wanted to chat about these points and maybe find out something Ive missed or was ignorant about that stops me from understanding or accepting these. Thanks all!

    Rich
     
  2. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    plot holes, don't you just love them.

    RAGE
     
  3. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    the trojan brought harold rimmer from 3 million years in future to present, like a time stream from them to 3 million years in the past.

    It was explained by kryten but it was done so quickly i think alot of ppl didnt notice
     
  4. drumjay

    drumjay Catering Officer Fan Club Team

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    1. That was the joke, didn't you see the silly stimulant salute? it's in their program, they are bad, they up-rise at anything.

    2. The quantum rod brought time, space and life into one space and time, so they had no idea Red Dwarf was even outside, yet he asked i thought you died on Red Dwarf. So to Howard everything was still in place from his time, basically bring his life to our Rimmer.

    3. The information was from the computer on the other ship, they are the Space Corps, question them at your peril!

    4. I think they are moving closer to earth, so you will get transmissions, TV and radio from the past. it also could have been recorded, don't forget the millions of hours of TV that could be saved, it could be 3 million years old, but Lister has just seen it for the first time.

    5. Marooned Rimmer saving 27,000 grand, Better than Life Rimmer not paying taxes. The Dollar-Pound was currency. But Lister was probably playing for fun, he probably had billions but as there is no realistic way to spend it, it becomes worthless. Bit like the Euro.

    6. I think the Rimmer family trait is to cheat, lie and get what they want no matter how they do it. Howard could have ejected all the crew hologram disks into space, leaving him as the only one. But the premise is in the joke.

    Some ideas there, many can be worked through logic or making your own mind to fit the story. It doesn't have to follow a pre mindset.
     
  5. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    1.
    She said she was going to use the rod to "unite all sims and start the simulant uprising". So far the Dwarfers have met "rogue" sims who are in business for themselves. The implication here was that the rod would bring them all together and unite them in a war against a human race that they clearly believe to still be suppressing them.


    2.
    There isn't (we presume) still an active Space Corps but we don't know where Howard was transported from or if time travel was involved. He could have been pulled from another point in space and time.


    3.
    Robert fluffing his line I expect. The JMC computer made the decision. Nobody else.

    4/5.

    Have you been to a bookies in the past 15 years? Virtual, "predetermined" racing has been all the rage for over a decade. This is just a rather low tech version of the same thing. Lister is betting out of boredom against a vending machine. He finds money lying around in lockers in Blue and is doing it to occupy your time. Really I think people are just looking for faults that aren't there when they start analysing stuff like this.

    6.

    For all we know Howard was the ships only hologram when the accident happened. As a technician it would make sense that he was also hardlight. Maybe the ship's computer had no reason to revive anybody else. I've never seen it implicitly stated anywhere that hologram's are revived in order of rank (except in the novel). With the whole crew dead who would give the order anyway?
     
  6. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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    The pilot at the "Welcome Back George McIntyre" reception George says "if anyone else dies who is more important to the mission than me I'll kill you".

    Im not trying to "find faults", Im just discussing the show. I was careful to state that I love the episode and just want clarification. I just like to have things ordered in my mind and these points jolted. I thought that this is the place to discuss these thing? With knowledgable fans!
     
  7. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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    I suppose the paradox could have been they inadvertantly started the sim rising if she hadnt become a spoon stirer lol. Yes I take your point, especially with the next point you make about "time"...

    Yes - I forgot the matter of "time" - pardon the pun - I soppose the tight plot times and move slightly more towards comedy than scifi reduced dwelling on the who what where when of the situation. Star trek would have spent ages comping through the 'ifs and bits' on that!

    Yeah I though it might have been a line fluff, but didnt want to presume incase I had overlooked something. "One small step for - man" - anyone can do it!

    I dont gamble but I get your point here - it could have been computer generated or an old earth transmission. Just a line would have cleared that nicely. Maybe its mentioned in later episodes where these transmissions are coming from. They are certainly in a more "busy" part of space.
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    To be honest the Pig racing section was easily the worst thing in the episode, it served no purpose other than to add to the distracting number of thigns going on in that scene. It should have been cut out and just started the episode with cat sitting down and finding the book of facts.
     
  9. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    in a way i hope it was just robert because if its not then its not great directing from doug, but then at same time why would doug let that through? its possible that was in the script and doug was trying to make the computer sound more important then it was because it sounds better when you say "they decided"

    which kinda worries me about dougs writing style if thats the case, but who knows

    its also possible howards ship could have more then 1 hologramme as its never been said that every ship could only have 1, but then that still doesnt explain how he could be hardlight? i really wish doug had added more backstory as it would have helped the episode alot
     
  10. drumjay

    drumjay Catering Officer Fan Club Team

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    But it is a nice link between the betting and the shopping channel. You couldn't have followed Cat finding the book and instantly switching to the shopping channel. I just felt it bridged the gap.
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    The hardlight thing doesn't need explanation. Everyone assumes legion built it but his actual words were "I created the hard-light drive many years ago. My mind is not all that it once was"

    Legion probably didn't create the Hard Light drive, one of the scientists that powered his subconscious did. Legion was found on board a research station. I don't think the scientists just sat around inventing things and never showing them to anybody else.

    That aside I found the whole "touch T" thing a bit unecessary and so there was no real need to make him hardlight without that scene. I think it would have been a lot funnier to have Rimmer goading him about "being one of the old class 2 models" as a callback to his time on the Enlightenment. A bit of a wasted opportunity I felt.
     
  12. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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    Yeah I think youre right, but I thought this had already happened and sims were known to hate humans (notorious for it I believe Kryten said in series 6). I suppose I wasnt considering time travel elements of the Rod but I cant help feeling like Im putting a plaster over that. I will scan the script again for the time bits kryten talks about.

    Yeah I didnt get the time travel bit, that is alot clearer now. If onlly they had just said something like "so he thinks hes 3 million years in the past" or something less cryptic to new viewers (which is why they probably didnt!). Thanks for the heads up anyways.

    Im now guessing it was a line fluff and it was just the computer he meant. :-)

    Yeah I like that theory. Would be great for them to mention it or further explain this new busy universe.

    Yeah I take your point it is probably just "play money". I think the marooned thing was different though as it was kept by Rimmer before he died and so was the accident so I think he intended to spend it I suppose.

    Yes true - just wished they had put a line in - would have been a great gag!


    Agree, I just like it when its in the story already. Its a predisposition I have that I will just have to deal with! :-D
     
  13. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I have to admit I was pondering this one myself earlier. IIRC from what has been said about Simulants they were built for a war that never took place so they were recalled and were supposed to be scrapped. Some escaped and went rogue. So from that I think we're supposed to assume that there are only rogue sims left since if they didn't escape and go rogue, they'd have been dismantled. With that in mind the idea of a Space Corps ship having a tame simulant on board just doesn't seem to fit, unless, and it is possible I guess, Howard and the Simulant were brought forward from a time prior to the decision being made to withdraw and scrap the Simulants.

    It's a very minor quibble in a good episode IMO though and let's face it, continuity has never really been Red Dwarf's strong point before and just like in the past I'm not really bothered by it, it's certainly not affected my enjoyment of Trojan.

    Did anyone else think the Simulant should have had double-eyebrows or something similar to make her visually obviously different from humans like the Captain of the ship in Gunmen? I know she appeared to have a mechanoid style hand at the end when she'd been converted into a stirrer so I guess that sort of counts.
     
  14. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  15. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    She also had the simulant voice effect. The fact that she had been given a human sounding name "Sim Crawford", makes me think that maybe she was a Seven of Nine style experiment.
     
  16. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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  17. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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  18. lemonhead

    lemonhead Second Technician

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    I always assumed that was Kryten's spare hand? I like your theory though.
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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  20. newkemall

    newkemall Third Technician

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    Yeah I thought it was Kryten's hand too.
     

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