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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by supercat, Dec 28, 2011.
Oh dear... well I would say sending hate mail is more idiotic... Much more. Poor lad!
Urgh, hate mail, not good (though not surprising either unfortunately) ...primitive Earthlings! *not that i'm suggesting any one here was involved in anything to that extent*
I feel that timeslip's above post is quite sincere. I'm not making excuses for anyone here, but i do feel it only fair for me to point out that from my eye witness account, i did indeed only see him filming inbetween takes. Another guy near us claimed otherwise (possibly due to a genuine 'source-monitoring error' - an unintentional false memory...it happens), but i personally only saw him filming inbetween scenes and after filming had ended (Perhaps my initial post in the other thread should've made that more clear) So in that sense it could've indeed been much worse.
However, as i said i'm not making excuses for anyone, and certainly can't disagree with what Seb and others have said regarding the extent of what was output to the net. I didn't see the photos, but i can imagine, from what i did see on the night, how detailed they were. There's really no excuse for filming or taking photos period really. I mean, i would've personally loved to have a photo of myself with the set and/or actors behind me, but wouldn't even attempt to do so knowing what could very well be at stake for the future of RD recordings.
Perhaps some time in the distant future we will be completely trusted to take photos if we promise not to post them on-line, which would of course mean a slight values shift for some, and a shift in trust also...but then trust has to work both ways. And every incident like this, potentially furthers that gap slightly.
But yeah, it certainly could've been a lot worse regarding spoilers, but it's also important to recognise that the issue goes beyond just that as far as future filming in front of an audience is concerned.
Anyway, that's the last i will say on the matter...probably,..almost definately.. .
I see both sides here.
Being in the Audience for Red Dwarf is a huge thing, obviously thrilling, exciting and getting caught up with the banter on set and the overall atmosphere is beyond Smegging epic, this guy is obviously a Fan who got swept up in what was happening.
I didnt see the clip on youtube and I wouldnt have wanted to anyways as I'm looking forward to seeing what happens for mmyself next week.
A Friend of mine went to the first recording and we made it a verbal contract between the two of us to not speaketh of what we saw, she only told me information like the rear entrance being used and how it ended up with the police getting involved and for me to wear trainers and use a torch (this has been mentioned on here by other members about the journey to the holding area).
Personally, I have no problem with the guy, he like some of us was lucky to get a Ticket, he went along, got carried away with his enthusiasm, and suffered the consequences. Rather than shy away and keep his head in the sand hes come on the board introduced himself, apologised profusely removed the material and in my opinion this is all over with now and will only serve as a deterrent to anyone who goes to the next four recordings.
Hopefully Doug will see this as a one time thing, know how this has been treated, get Kryten to sweep it under the carpet and the future of Red Dwarf recordings with live Audiences to not be put in jeopardy.
Now, who wants a Mince Pie and some Mulled wine? It is the season of goodwill after all.
The problem is that there will always be a small percentage who flout these rules. Its just my view but I think GNP should at least take the minimum precautions to prevent it, by which I don't mean Doug Naylor having a nice friendly chat to the crowd before hand.
I don't think asking people to leave recording equipment in a cloakroom is particularly draconian; it's not as if they are being forced to sign non-disclosure documents or anything. I don't see why it needs to lead to ill-feeling either. You may have felt this way as press attending an event to review a screening but that isn't and shouldn't be the mindset of an audience who are priviledged to have been invited to take part in this filming.
I don't see why it would be difficult to organise a cloakroom system or why this should need to be viewed as insulting; I've been to many museums and art installations with similar rules. It usually takes one little old lady to run and it's never led me to resent the place in question, rather I enjoy the art more because I'm more relaxed and not distracted by the urge to photograph it.
It's hard to blame timeslip for being foolish; people have an incredible urge to preserve great moments in their life. By removing the possibility GNP might even find that the audience are MORE into what's actually happening in front of them.
Well, because there isn't a cloakroom already set up and (let's be honest) it'll be people's phones that are the 'recording equipment' that needs to be left in there. So it'd have to be secure and probably insured, because if people's phones started going missing there'd be trouble. Of course they could state the standard 'Personal items are left in the cloakroom at the owners risk.' which might then mean that people then don't feel safe leaving their stuff in there... basically it's a whole can of worms.
I'm glad that the offending items have been taken down and while I don't think he should be further vilified, I have no sympathy for the guy who after receiving a (much sought after) ticket, seeing (and taking a picture of) signs stating that no recording equipment should be used continued to do exactly that, even after he was asked to stop by security. Maybe it was over-excitement, but they weren't kept for personal use, they were posted on YouTube and in a public/open photo folder on FB. He got a bit of abuse? Tough. Sorry if I seem harsh, but if a number of polite requests, one from the creator of the show you're supposedly such a big fan of go ignored, then clearly stronger language is required. I can only hope that now that this incident is done with, it'll discourage others from doing the same.
I attended last Fridays recording and enjoyed myself immensely (fulfilling a lifetime ambition to see a Red Dwarf recording). The location I was sat in provided me with a fantastic view of the action and no, I'm not telling you anything.
In respect to Photos, it was made very clear on the Ticket, by the guys from Lost in TV, on the Security Posters on the walls of the Holding Area, by the Warm-up guy and finally by Doug himself not to take Photos or give Spoilers away. I don't believe these Images could possibly be Published by "mistake" or "misunderstanding".
I have to say that I was surprised (having worked in places with strict security) that we weren't asked to hand in our phones, etc. which I would have been happy to do, as I don't want this to be the last recording I can attend. I also consider it a privilege that I'm being trusted not to say anything.
As a Consultant in the IT Industry for a long time, I have one note of caution on the publication and subsequent deletion of Images. That is, Websites tend to make backup Copies of them and store them in their Archive System (for Disaster Recovery purposes after a system failure). If the Images were pasted into Facebook, then Facebook may have taken backups of those Images and stored them on their Backup Archive (which could potentially still be there).
Finally, Social Websites tend to have a policy that can give them free reign with any Images that are uploaded to their site (there are a number of reported cases on this, including using personal Images in adverts without permission), but I would hope they would not do anything with Red Dwarf Images!!!
So, in short, don't publish any Red Dwarf Images by "accident" in the first place because
1) Grant Naylor Productions and the Red Dwarf Fan base have asked you not to
2) It can be very difficult to delete them afterwards and they might be used in a way you did not intend.
3 pages on this?
A guy got caught up in the excitement and wanted to share some between take messing around, something that he thought wouldn't enrage the bosses.
He realised his error and apologised.
The way fandom is reacting is almost as if he took out a gun and shot Doug and jeopardised our chances of ever seeing red dwarf again.
Everyone makes mistakes, that's why they put rubbers on the end of pencils
I realise I've added to the furore I'm complaining about just by complaining about it, no-one point that out
And posted an album of photos showing the set, costumes etc in an open album on Facebook...
None of the other 300 attendees felt the need to film or take photos.
I believe the furore is because he's potentially jeopardised the filming of future series with a live audience. I think the majority of RD fans would agree that the show works best with one. Plus when the co-creator of a show takes the trouble to make a personal appeal to the audience not to film or take pictures, you would expect someone who purports to be a fan to respect that.
However, I agree that now the offending pics and video have been taken down, that should be the end of the matter.
In all honesty I believe it's as complicated as you want to make it. Security guards are borderline minimum wage employees and we are talking about a high quality professional television production filmed at a professional film studio that's been years in the making...not a spur of the moment village fete...they can't afford a cloakroom for the audience? I'm sure it isn't that much of a hassle to sort out some insurance given how many other things must be insured there. As I've pointed out already exam centres and numerous other things of low funding seem to manage this sort of thing easily enough so I don't really believe it's as headache inducing as you make out for a TV production company to do this.
The overwhelming impression given here is not one of a restriction in budget preventing these things but instead one of overwhelming naivety in believing a little talking to from the writer was seriously going to discourage the "if I don't film it it didn't happen" generation from this kind of rule breaking and online showboating.
Quite why the security guard wasn't monitoring it more closely after the first incident is also strange...oh right...minimum wage.
Idiot is an bigoted, ableist term - http://disabledfeminists.com/2009/10/11/ableist-word-profile-idiot/
C'mon Dwarfers, you wouldn't be sexist, racist, sizist etc. so why be ableist?
I don't even know what an able-ist is.
I'm guessing its nothing to do with Kryten's (not heavy) brother eh?
The main reason for the furore, I expect, is because the ringleader was D-JJ
What's the point of a large twitter following if you can't poke them with a stick and enrage them sometimes, at least that seems to be his philosophy...
Yeah, obviously people aren't able to decide for themselves that what that guy did was wrong. FFS.
Indeed, it's obviously all GNP's fault. I mean why on earth would anyone even consider a polite request from one of the creators of a show that they're such a HUGE fan of eh? How naive of GNP to put trust in the fans. Don't they realise that people are ******? Why would a group of people who have been desperate for a new series of RD stop to think about the consequences of their actions? I mean *yeah* there were signs saying don't use recording equipment, there was a notice on the ticket and Doug told us all that it could put another audience based series in jeopardy, but hell we already got to be in the audience, so screw everyone else!
Oh and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that timeslip1974 is a 37 year old man who should have known better. Hardly the generation that you're referring to... a number of whom were there and *didn't* break the rules by filming and taking photographs. Go figure!
It's not life and death people and no real harm was done in the end.
All publicity is good publicity - that's a fact.
people really need to let this subject go
Actually I think it would be best to keep it going. Remind people what the community would do should a future ticket holder wish to do something similar.
It's only worth keeping going if people are actually seeing the problem here. People saying "No harm done" or "Security should have stopped him" are missing the point. Doug battled hard to get a live audience. And the results of this Series filming before a live audience will effect any chance of future live audiences. In fact, if something big gets out onto the web that shouldn't, we could even lose any remaining audiences for THIS series, let alone any future ones. People who already have tickets told not to bother because some idiot from the last filming couldn't respect the wishes of GNP.
Yes, it is good they got taken down quickly...but in fairness, they shouldn't have bloody been there in the first place. And it took a barrage of abuse to remove the video....and yet the Facebook pictures still remianed until that was publically pointed out! The tickets state NO CAMERAS or RECORDING EQUIPMENT. And the talk from Doug at the beginning should have made it clear enough as to what was expected.
The one bad thing from attending the recording for me is the fact I have no pictures of the event. Out of respect for the show creators and to do my bit for others to be given the chance to attend in the future, I refrained from taking any pictures. I'm slightly jealous that somebody has all those video memories and pictures...but then posting them willy-nilly on the internet makes me bitter and annoyed at him.
As this discussion is getting a bit heated in places, and on occasion in danger of breaking our rules on etiquette, I think it's best to bring it to an end here. The point has been made pretty clearly, by a number of people, that these actions were wrong, and in direct contravention of the entry conditions of the ticket. The person in question has removed the web postings in question - so no matter what some others may say to try and defend their actions, it's pretty clear that even they now know it was wrong.
I think for the sake of civility, that should be an end to it!