the inro. of Annett-Kochanski was bad for Kryten

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Alana_Ryan_Behan, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Alana_Ryan_Behan

    Alana_Ryan_Behan Second Technician

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    I hate Season 7 Kryten. All that irrational jealousy. All that passive-aggressiveness.

    I needed to watch some of seasons 3-5 Classic Kryten to get the taste out of my mouth.
     
  2. Presuming Ken

    Presuming Ken Deck Sergeant

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    I think replacing Rimmer with Kochanski was a brilliant idea.

    Shame it wasn't brilliant when it happened on screen.

    Kryten grated on me. As did Kochanski.

    But I guess that was the best (only?) way to go?
     
  3. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    how do you think it would have looked with just lister, cat and kryten as the main 3?

    A good question might be, if you are in the kochanski was rubbish group.
    Who could have come in and made up the quartet?
     
  4. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    I think without Rimmer they were always on a hiding to nothing.

    The only way it might have worked with just the three of them (with Holly perhaps) is if the episodes had been more plot driven. Any tension between the characters could maybe have worked in a similar way to Quarantine. Without Rimmer to vent against, they take it out on one another... It certainly couldn't have been the same though.

    I don't think any replacement could have come in and made it work. Kochanski coming in was a killer though because not only was she annoying in her own right, she also ruined Kryten.

    I think a lot of decisions were made at that time with an eye on the movie (bring in a woman, make 8 episodes instead of six, film without an audience) and many are regrettable with the benefit of hindsight.
     
  5. Santa Paws

    Santa Paws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I always thought Kochanski ruined Kryten.
     
  6. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I find people are sometimes too harsh on Chloe Annett
     
  7. Alana_Ryan_Behan

    Alana_Ryan_Behan Second Technician

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    I think there's a bit of "out of our league" resentment/hatred from the RD nerds towards Annett.

    Grogan's Kochanski is rustic, working class and not really an intellectual.

    Annett's Kochanski grew up in a posh part of Scotland, was educated at the 23rd century equivelent of a expensive English private school and is well-spoken.

    Its march harder for a fan viewer to imagine Annett's Kochanski wanting to date the average RD fan than imagining Grogan's Kochanski wanting to date them.
     
  8. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    Aaaaaaah, that explains it and why I don't see it because of course I could pull Chloe.
     
  9. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    Chloe Annett did an ok job with the bad writing that was given to her. It was a potential goldmine, but ended up being terrible. Kochanski as a posh girl didn't really fit with Lister's personality.

    It's inexplicable though why they chose to completely rewrite Kryten's character into the jealous, possessive, grating character that they did.
     
  10. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    No, she's just Scottish.

    No, she was just miscast.

    Though the substandard writing certainly didn't help her either.
     
  11. Alana_Ryan_Behan

    Alana_Ryan_Behan Second Technician

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    JMC:
    I've just noticed a weird fan self-hatred streak of anti intellectualism when it comes to what women are "acceptable". I feel that it is one of the reasons why Grogan's working-class version of Kochanski is more popular than Annett's high class posh girl.
     
  12. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Here's a simpler one.

    Series 1, 2 and 6 are considered to be the show at pretty much its best.

    Series 7, 8 and Back to Earth are considered to be the show at pretty much its worst.

    If Clare Grogan had been brought in to replace Rimmer in Series VII then she wouldn't have been popular either.
     
  13. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Check and mate. ;-)
     
  14. Alana_Ryan_Behan

    Alana_Ryan_Behan Second Technician

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    It's still pretty obvious that Grogan's Kochanski didn't go to a cyber-school where she met Dickens et al.

    Your personality is shaped by your environment and upbringing,

    Given Kochanski Prime's different personality to Kochanski II, she must have had a different life.

    You can still have a much more basic life and be out of the league of a even lower Third Technician.
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I really don't think we see anywhere near enough of Grogan's Kochanski to make any assumptions at all about her back story or upbringing and I'd consider assumptions based on the actresses dialect very weak grounds to make such assumptions on. Honestly, I don't think you can really tell a great deal about her personality either considering more of Grogan's lines were either a Psiren induced hallucination or Rimmer hijacking her image than actually spoken by the character. About the only things really we know about Grogan's Kochanski with any certainty are that she's a Navigation Officer, Lister is infatuated with her and she's Scottish. Anything else is just guesswork.
     
  16. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    All of your assumptions seem to be based on Clare Grogan having a Scottish accent though.

    And didn't you start this thread to talk about how Chloe Annett's Kochanski ruined Kryten? That is why many fans don't like the character (and because she had to try to replace Rimmer) as I'm sure you well know.

    A nice attempt at a wind-up though. :-D
     
  17. Alana_Ryan_Behan

    Alana_Ryan_Behan Second Technician

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    I wasn't winding anyone up. I was just going by what some people have told me - that the first Kochanski is very different to the second etc.

    Back to Kryten. In series 7 he makes Agnes Moorhead's Endora on Bewitched look kind and bonevalent.
     
  18. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Of course they are different. Because Chloe Annett was completely miscast as a Scottish woman. :-D

    No way were the writers ever intending the character to be working class as you thought though. In the novels she kicks off by speaking Japanese, for example. Hardly a working class trait.
     
  19. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    It's odd where people are getting this "working-class" thing about Grogan's Kochanski from. We really never see enough of Grogan's version to determine anything about her class background, so it would seem to be entirely based upon her accent and demeanour.

    It's possible to be classy without talking in a posh voice and acting like a snob towards others.
     
  20. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    IIRC the sum total of Clare Grogan's screen time as Kochanski is two exchanges, where she tells Lister that's he's been called to the Captain's office because he's been promoted to Admiral and about 4 lines in Stasis Leak in the hotel where she's winding Lister up about her mystery husband and one flashback where she's dancing but doesn't actually speak, if there are any others that I have missed they're similarly brief. With Chloe's Kochanski the writers and her just had far longer to establish her character and backstory.

    There's nothing Clare says or does that contradicts Chloe's portrayal of Kochanski or supports the view that she obviously has a different background or upbringing.

    However, I will agree that one of the things I disliked most in Series VII was the way the arrival of Kochanski turned Kryten so whiny and jealous, the conflict between Kochanski and Kryten just doesn't work as well as the Rimmer/Lister one. I do think however that Chloe gets a bit unduly criticised for this and if it is true that she was playing the character in a more unlikable manner than intended, surely that is at least partly the fault of the director for not correcting her?

    She was always going to be up against it, being seen as the replacement for Rimmer but pretty much whichever character/actor they brought in was going to be in the same position.
     

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