The More the Merrier or ENOUGH Already ?

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by BigOleDummy, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Movie sequels is what I'm talking about. In general I'm not a huge fan of them as too many just seem to want to cash in on the original. Some are indeed very good though and a few, a very few, are even better than the original. This will be sort of a 2 or maybe even 3 part question for everyone.

    1. What's the Worst sequel to the original you've ever seen? My choice for this dubious honor is Crank 2. I like the original quite a lot and re-watch it on a semi-regular basis ........ couple of times a year. I distinctly remember thinking as I watched it end on my first viewing " This is one movie that WON'T get a sequel". Imagine my surprise when not a month later I see that they are making Crank 2. Of course I snatched it up the second the DVD came on sale, watched it once ,in horror I might add, and promptly put it in my unused box. I did give it another try later on but could not even finish it. I deleted the rip from my HD and tossed the DVD disgusted. Unbelievable even for an action movie, almost a scene by scene recreation of the original shot as a parody. Very disappointed.

    2. What's the BEST sequel you've seen? My vote here goes to Now You See Me 2. Loved the first one! Was a little nervous about the second because so many sequels fall short. But I think 2 not only captured the essence of the 1st but improved on it. Kept me guessing and glued to my seat. A wonderful movie and an outstanding sequel imho.

    3. What movie WITHOUT a sequel would you like to see a second installment of? I'm going with The Watchmen on this. While I thought the original could have used a little editing I found it quite entertaining and a great watch.

    Those are my picks for sequels pro and con and hopeful, what's yours?
     
  2. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    The worst sequel to the original I've personally seen, although admittedly I may not have made it all the way through was Wild Geese 2. The original was quite an entertaining film with some very well known actors in it. The sequel kept none of the cast (Although admittedly the vast majority of them were killed in the first film) and instead of containing at least some message in there about western, especially British, interference in Africa and having the mercenaries trying to rescue a deposed president scheduled for execution, the sequel was about trying to break Rudolph Hess (Ex 2nd in command of the Nazi party) out of Spandau, for some reason - I honestly can't recall why. I'll still go back an re-watch Wild Geese despite having seen it many times, it's one of those movies that benefits from being viewed with alcohol IMO. Wild Geese 2 however I don't believe I finished (It was quite a while back now, so I'm not certain).

    A nod in the worst sequel category has to go to Birdemic 2, although to be fair it wasn't that much of a decline on the original which was atrocious. If you're curious about either, look up the Cinemasins "Everything wrong with..." videos about the two and they'll tell you everything you need to know about both and save you about 3 hours in the process.

    I honestly can't choose for best sequel so I'll have to cheat and nominate two. First up is Aliens (Specifically the Director's Cut), I honestly don't think I need say much more really, if you've seen it you'll probably understand why, I believe it's widely regarded as one of the best sequels in cinema history. The second is Sharknado 2. I love the Sharknado films, I don't think anyone expected anything really of the first, it was a fairly standard trashy SyFy Shark-type film that for some reason became inexplicably successful. Sharknado 2 however took everything that made the original good and concentrated on it, it feels like you can tell that they know it's ridiculous but they're having fun doing it and that in turn makes the movie itself fun.

    Currently without a sequel (Although it is due out this year IIRC, but it has been repeatedly postponed so I'm not sure how much that counts) is Iron Sky. Loved the original and the snippets of trailers look just as good, but at the moment it's been pushed back and delayed so often that I'm not entirely confident it'll actually happen. But I want to see hollow earth Nazis led by Hitler riding a T-Rex. Edit: Scratch that, apparently it came out in February (Last I checked it wasn't due till this winter).

    If that doesn't count, Flash Gordon. It's probably been far too long now admittedly and it'd probably wind up being a grim and brooding alternative universe/reboot/reimagining, but the original ended with the hint that Ming might have somehow survived and as a kid I was always disappointed that no-one ever did answer whether it really was the end.

    Apologies for going a bit outside the remit there.
     
  3. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    Jed, who used to be on here, was assistant director on birdemic two. I used to give him so much smeg over it! Aliens is a great sequel and is an allegory of the yanks in Vietnam
     
  4. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    ? Now WHY would you want to break Hess out? Speer I could kinda sorta understand ........ kinda....... sorta......... but Hess? Anyway....... now I'm intrigued so may have to see if I can find it. Or at least a reason...... its off to IMDB later today!

    You know...... I've never seen one. I usually love "those kind" of movies, the so bad they are good kind, which is what I assume they are. I'll look for the second one now, do I need to watch the first?

    Oh man, don't get me started on THAT! I HATE and DETEST what they've done to Batman and Superman. The Avengers too , to an extent. They are Superhero's NOT Supersociopaths! Is it too much to ask to have a Hero who is just a plain old "Good Guy"? We have enough "dark" in the world already, these character's are SUPPOSED to be escapist fun! Not a commentary on the woes of the world.
     
  5. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    the sharknado movies are great, I've seen them all. supposedly the next one is actually the last, supposedly
     
  6. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    From what I remember you're given a bit of recap at the start of the second through character conversations, that and to be honest a good chunk of the synopsis can be decoded easily from the movie's title, yeah they really are that deep but it's part of what makes them good IMO; they've never pretended to be anything else. I watched them out of order myself, I watched 2 and 3 before I got a chance to see 1 and it didn't hurt my enjoyment of them.

    I remember Jed, he always seemed like a genuinely nice guy IMO. I recall at the time that he got a fairly large amount of quite nasty abuse over social media for his involvement in the Birdemic series (Of the "This is so bad you should kill yourself" type of comment from what he'd said IIRC) which seemed really quite unnecessary*. That said I watched a fair chunk of the first and I wanted to like it, I really did, but even though I am a big fan of "So bad it's good" movies these were just "So bad it's atrocious" on pretty much every level.

    * Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting for a second that any of the smeg you personally gave him was of this sort or anything other than good natured ribbing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  7. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    It was good natured and Jed always took it that way
     
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  8. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Didn't like it when you called him a raghead though, did he?
     
  9. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Wait no, my mistake, he didn't like it when you called all Asians ragheads did he?
     
  10. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

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    Birdemic 2 fell into the same trap a lot of accidental hits fall in to.

    The original Birdemic is utterly inept on every level but the writer/director completely believed he was creating a very serious movie - and in interviews after-the-fact he still seemed slightly confused as to why people were laughing at it. And that of course is what made it so funny. That is what made it a modern cult classic. You can't just invent that, it has to happen naturally.

    Birdemic 2 on the other hand, whilst still written directed by him, absolutely reeks of outsider interference attempting to create a movie as 'bad' as the original in the hope it would generate the same response. It didn't work because it was orchestrated rather than natural.
     
  11. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    I got the impression that the director had a pretty firm control over Birdemic 2, it seemed very much more of the same just with a little bit more money behind it. Did Birdemic really become a cult classic? :eek: I thought it was just seen as basically a total train-crash. There were plans at one stage for Birdemic 3 so I'm guessing it must have made some money, unless the director of Birdemic is pulling a Uwe Boll.
     
  12. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

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    No, James Nguyen, the director of both, really isn't in on the joke at all - and Birdemic 2 is far too self aware and deliberate to be something he had control over. There's quite a tragedy to the guy really.

    Check out this documentary some time.

     
  13. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    That kind of fits in with my understanding, he had enough control over each that they couldn't have been produced as a "So Bad They're Good" type film, he was genuinely trying to make a good, serious movie and make a point there and definitely wasn't in on the joke and they're so terrible that it's just not plausible he was trying to make a genuinely good movie. There was no joke, except sadly at his expense. I genuinely believe he thought he was the next Hitchcock. Birdemic was bad, but Birdemic 2 was if anything worse.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  14. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

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    Yeah but I think you're missing what I'm suggesting here - Birdemic 2 IS an attempt to make a bad movie, perhaps not by him but certainly by the people backing it and forcing his hand - they literally do a 'greatest hits' of all the bad moments from the last one that became viral and meme friendly... such as the wooohooo moment and the applause going on too long etc. First time round it was accidental, this time it's deliberate - and it shows.

    I don't think James N understands what's funny about it, he's just doing as he's told by the guys waving the money at him and giving him a chance to pick up his camera again... - Its like making a Die Hard sequel and the producer is there going "Make sure he says Yippekayay - that's what the audience wants."

    I think it's quite sad, almost exploitative - they touch on it in the documentary I linked.
     
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  15. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    According to Jed. The director was genuinely deluded into thinking he was a genius. He also spent the majority of the film's budget on hiring a boat that was used in jaws, as he thought it would give the film credibility. So if that's all true I don't think he was especially self aware do you?
     
  16. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Console Officer

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    Another film sequel I think surpassed the original, not by much though, is Guardians Of the Galaxy 2. They are BOTH excellent imho, but I thought the characters were ...... fleshed out a bit more in 2. Great story, great acting, great script GotG 2 is/was an outstanding movie. I just wish they hadn't killed off Yondu.
     
  17. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I think these sequels tend to be the kinds of films that frankly you should be expecting sequels to. Hollywood's recent interest in Marvel super-heroes is going to keep going until people stop buying tickets.

    Whatever happened to the Jaws franchise. They made a conscious decision that 4 was enough. The sequels never explained why the sequels were happening, but in the scripts they explained that a voodoo witch-doctor put a curse on that family.

    I think you know sequels are really getting stupid when the actors change and the story either has nothing to do with the original or it's just repeating the original with new actors. For example, did you know there's a Home Alone 5?

    Aliens is a great sequel, but the franchise went downhill after that. AlienĀ³ they couldn't decide what the story was and the studio fired the original director, and from there on in it's obvious that the franchise is being driven by the studio churning sequels out with little regard to continuity. Especially when they kill Ripley in 3 only to have her cloned back to life in 4.
     
  18. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    Sequels are usually always made for cash in reasons, so I expect them to be as poor as they often are
     
  19. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    Saying that I'm very torn on three from hell
     
  20. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

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    Which reminds me, you ain't done with your captain Spaulding from the other thread yet big ole
     

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