There should not be any more Red Dwarf.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Murray, Nov 15, 2009.

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  1. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    Your contribution to the thread was to state that I was wrong on the basis of one of Red Dwarf: Back To Earth's episodes getting 2.9m viewers. I responded by saying this was inaccurate as you were including re-run figures, ridiculously inflating the number of viewers in comparison to other shows which don't include such. You responded by saying "I don't like your attitude" because I included an eyerolling smiley in my post, and have since done nothing except make posts calling me an idiot. And you're calling me a troll. :roll:

    I find it ironic that you're accusing me of not understanding the concept of opinion, when your only contribution to the thread is to have posted (and been corrected on) inaccurate facts, and thrown a temper tantrum when I pointed out they were wrong. If you can't defend Back To Earth, then don't try with inaccurate facts. And definitely don't act like a child when you get corrected.

    I also find it hilarious you announced "I'm leaving this thread!" and then made another post 10 minutes later. :lol:
     
  2. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Eh, I'm bored and can't sleep, I'll bite.

    Here is the thing, I was trying to engage in a civil discourse. You start being condescending with not just me but every poster (you might see everybody else doesn't like it either). You pulled this out of being something civil, I'll just take the proverbial and act like a complete and total polaroid head because that is all this poultry thread deserves and that was what all those posts after were about.

    If you want civil discourse then get off your high horse and act like a nice person while you are trying to get your point across.

    And you do have a misunderstanding of opinion if you say something like "deep down every true Red Dwarf fan knows that there should not be any more if it cannot be of the same tone as that which came before (i.e. everything before Series 7)". As a true fan of Red Dwarf who loves Series VII-BTE I have to say that you are not a true Scotsman.



    Well I've bitten again and am making a serious post but after that comment I was just going to post stupid comments as this thread deserves nothing better as I said above.
    You never corrected me, I think you will find. You accused me of getting facts from Wikipedia, when I proved I didn't you said the source wasn't valid regardless. You used BARB figures but didn't include Dave Ja Vu figures or the Monday repeat figures (you may know that 'Back in the Red' Episode 1 broke a record for BBC Two with 8 million viewers. It included repeat viewers). If you have any interest in TV ratings then you should know that Live+7 is much more relevant to the success of the show in Britain than any other rating, only tabloid newspapers who say X-Factor and Doctor Who are failing in the ratings say otherwise.



    But I'll go back to acting like an idiot in this thread. It is fun! Plus new Red Dwarf is starting filming tomorrow. I need not bother myself with people trying to prove that all the Red Dwarf that they like is a failure, I've been in several discourses similar before and they usually end with me being accused of being Doug Naylor or Craig Charles (no really, I have actually been accused of being them).
     
  3. supercat

    supercat Console Officer

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    Does having a passionate opinion about something make you a troll now? While I may not agree with Murray, he has every right to his opinion, just as everyone else as a right to theirs.

    This may be a good a time as any to just accept this, agree to disagree and move on before it starts getting really nasty. Pretty please...
     
  4. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    He was being unreasonably inflammatory so it made him look like a troll. But yeah, I'll just not visit this topic any more.
     
  5. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    It hasn't been ignored, it's been responded to by those of us who've pointed out, repeatedly, that it wasn't just "a success for Dave". A success by Dave's standards would have been anything between half a million and a million viewers. It was a success for the entirety of the history of non-terrestrial broadcast in the UK up to that point.

    Amusingly, you've ignored the posts that refute your claim to being ignored. And since my irony-meter has now exploded (and since the attempts I've made to engage with you in a logical and reasoned way have been flat out ignored by you), that's about it for me and this discussion.

    You can think what you want about whether or not any more Red Dwarf should be made. The point is... it is being made. So either way... we win.
     
  6. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    And such adamant and arrogant stubborness is equally as childish. I gave up trying to treat you like an adult a while back. Do you honestly think you aren't making yourself look like a right pillock? This discusson isn't moving on anywhere because you are selective in what you respond to and keep repeating points that have previously been addressed to by others.

    You can't even get past the "BtE was a failure" line. It has been addressed on numerous occasions (to varying degree's of success) that BtE was NOT a flop by Dave's or anybody else's standards. Yet you still insist it is. As though you are so great and knowledgeable that your thinking that make sit a fact!

    Please, don't take my failure to reply as a victory. I just don't want to be going round in circles in pointless arguments until next Autumn. I have an immature teenage daughter at home I can do that with!
     
  7. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    I said the source wasn't valid because you said "I got them from the official Red Dwarf website, how could you get more official than that"? As it turns out ... that's probably the last place you want to be getting your figures from, if you have a logical bone in your body. Conflict of interest, much? Nobody includes re-run figures in ratings. Time-shifted viewings, yes. But not re-runs. That just introduces too much inaccuracy. You should probably get the gist of how bad it was when your "official, straight from the horse's mouth" source for viewing figures said that the first episode of BTE got 4 million viewers.

    And the worst part is ... I was accused of "twisting figures", and then I have to seriously refute a claim like that. Madness.

    I admit, it is difficult to argue with a mind of such great maturity. :roll:

    If you really think I'm the one who "pulled this thread out of civility", you may want to go and read it again from the start. And while you're doing that, report back on how many childish insults you've seen me throw at people (unlike quite a few others).

    No, I forget ... it's a success for all non-terrestial TV. I can't seem to say the words "success for Dave" without someone erroneously coming in as if that point has merit.

    If I say "Just because this was a success for this potato", and you respond with "WHOA HEY, WHOA WHOA whoa whoa whoa, stop, whoa, stop ... success for this BAG of potatoes! That's you shown!" ... then all you're doing is committing ignoratio elenchi. A success for Dave, or non-terrestial TV in general, does not equal a success for Red Dwarf.

    What about the standards of Red Dwarf? Was it a success for the show? Or do you just merely care about Dave's ratings, rather than the show? Would be odd for a supposed fan to do that.

    In fact, I put that question to people like you yesterday:

    It's no surprise to me that you didn't answer it. I don't think you really care whether the show is a success in general, or just a success because it's better than the garbage its sitting in. And as a fan of the show from the beginning ... that makes me sad. Very sad, to see people willing to flush the show for the selfish desire to see more past its sell-by date.
     
  8. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    In all honesty I believe RDX will be back to the high standard of writting the earlier series were at. BTE seems to have been commisioned and scripts written for the one off special rather quickly, which would not have given Doug Naylor a lot of time to write and edit before shooting. I'm under the impression that the video was editited pretty much on the fly just as it was filmed and not a big budget to work with, yet still a big success for digital tv.

    The new series 10 on the other hand has taken 2 years to set up and write the 6 part script, so I assume a lot lot more has gone into details of getting it write as well as likely a bigger budget. there will also be a long period between filming ending and the series airing so i imagine a lot more will go into post production.

    I doubt anyone will be dissapointed when we finally get to see it let alone say it should be no more.
     
  9. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    My point was not about whether the show was a success or not. It was about your selectivity when replying to people. Such as you did...just then.

    What exactly is your problem with there being more Red Dwarf? Because your opening paragraph to this whole thread seems to be based on your own personal opinions and your arrogant assumption that everybody agrees with it, or is wrong!

    You see, in my opinion. And in many others opinions, Back To Earth was a huge success. And not just from a ratings or TV network point of view. A huge success in the standards of Red Dwarf and a massive leap in the right direction we wanted it to take.
     
  10. dazsin

    dazsin First Technician

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    Murray

    Answer me this - if BTE was a flop, why would Dave commission a 6 episode series?
     
  11. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Agreed. It does seem to be a term used pretty loosely and (somewhat ironically) objectively nowadays doesn't it?. I think calling Murray a "troll" is taking it a little far personally. Regardless of his...ahem, interesting opinions.
     
  12. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    I have a question. If Back To Earth was a huge leap in the direction you wanted Red Dwarf to take ... what exactly would it have had to do to be a critical failure, in your eyes?
     
  13. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    I'l, start by telling you why I liked it.

    Firstly, it was an interesting storyline. A storyline which had me reeling in horror at the boys actual arrival on Earth. And if it had concluded with it all having been a story to get them home, I would have been quite upset. But it didn't do this. The conclusion acted as a big reset button and put the boys back where they belonged. 3 million years into deep space. Alone, lost and lonely. Having no long term consequences to the whole Red Dwarf scenario. I loved it and consider this genius writing. I could enjoy the story for what it was. An adventure that didn't harm Red Dwarf as I knew it.

    BtE reintroduced the characters nearly 10 years further on from where we last saw them. It proved to me that the actors could still convincingly play the roles as well, if not better in some cases, than before. I was interested to see that the hopelessness of the situation these characters have lived through from the first episode is still unresolved years later. I was both interested and moved to see Lister's emotional turmoil at the loss of Kochanski. I liked seeing Cat's expeditions away from the other crew members, putting me in mind of early Dwarf. Rimmer's continued irritation by Lister, always a key part of Red Dwarf. I loved seeing a chilled and relaxed Kryten returning from vacation and immediately deflating to the worrying mechanoid of old. I loved seeing all of this.

    But for me, the best thing BtE did was return to Lister an aim in life. Something that Dwarf has been missing since at least Series VII. Some might even say since Series V. For me, early Dwarf is all about Lister's hopes to return to Earth. It didn't matter that the human race might be extinct or that everyone he knew is now dead. Lister just wanted to go home. That was his aim in life. This altered during Series VI where the aim for them all became find Red Dwarf. Series VII's biggest concern from lister seemed to be where's my next curry coming from? BtE brought another direction for the character giving him a purpose for being. A meaning to his life. He loved kochanski. His subconscious knew she was out there. And he was going to find her!

    Some people see this as a good point to end it. I personally don't. For me, we could be set up for the best Red Dwarf ever.
    provide a perfect platform for new Red Dwarf, should the opportunity arise. Which it obviously did.

    I could go on about it but I have a podcast out there that gives my initial reaction to BTE in an hours worth of audio. There are then 3 more hours of episode talk on our episode reviews. We talked about the positives and the negatives. If you are really that interested in my opinion, listen to that.

    I know BtE is far from perfect and not without it's faults. But the positives, in my opinion far outweigh the negatives

    So....where could it have failed? It could have failed to deliver all of the above. It could have ended with them all remaining on Earth in the 20th Century. It could have failed in a million and one ways. But the point is, in my opinion it didn't.

    Now, I'll ask again. Why, in your opinion, do you think it was a total failure? Because you seem to be constantly working under the assumption that your opinion that it failed is the only possible opinion anybody could have.
     
  14. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Nice write up , that pretty much sums up my feelings for BTE.
     
  15. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    Do you think if Doug saw it he'd see fit to send some live audience tickets my way? :-)
     
  16. adorabelle

    adorabelle Console Officer

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    I hear he's an incredibly humble type who would never blow his own trumpet ;-)
     
  17. adorabelle

    adorabelle Console Officer

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    I'm not sure I'd want to :P
     
  18. MichaelJRimmer

    MichaelJRimmer Second Technician

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    I didnt like BTE but I want more RIMMER! He's my favorite character. I love acting like him. I started doing that thing where he bites his fist. Good stress reliever. But ya BTE sucked
     
  19. dazsin

    dazsin First Technician

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    I didn't think he'd have an answer to this
     
  20. supercat

    supercat Console Officer

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    Oh good! I thought it was just me. It's been commonplace, for as long as I remember, for newbies with radical opinions to be attacked.
     
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