There should not be any more Red Dwarf.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Murray, Nov 15, 2009.

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  1. feralfirie

    feralfirie Skutter

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    I didn't think that BTE was funny, but that still didn't stop me from buying the DVD and watching the whole thing as a single episode, more than once. I guess that I'm one RD fan who can't wait for a new series to come out. Doug has written brilliant comedy in the past and I absolutely loved Series 8.

    I agree with the others in that if you don't like it, don't watch it. Simple!
     
  2. van0014

    van0014 Skutter

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    Whoever started this topic, you are not a fan of Red Dwarf, and never have been if you hate it because of the new episodes. Any fan of Red Dwarf would realize the series is brilliant right from series one, even though it was around in the 80's. It is still DAMN good. Given the majority of Red Dwarf episodes are excellent, wouldn't it only be fair to give the new series a chance? And for anyone who didn't like BTE, did you watch all 3 episodes? I can remember watching the first one and not liking it that much but it was interesting and i felt like watching the other ones. Only after seeing all the episodes did i realize how good it was. You must admit, BTE was pretty smegging good. The last episode was my favourite. No fan of Red Dwarf could possibly hate that last episode. It is just as good as any, if not better.

    It is OK to express your opinion, but not in any situation you please. I believe you created this topic with the intention to persuade Red Dwarf to stop making new episodes. This is irrational. Just as irrational as me wanting the "neighbors" T.V. series off the air because i hate it. There will always be people who hate T.V. series. After all, the whole world can't like it. There is no one thing that everyone will like. You should respect everyone's right to be independent, and to enjoy Red Dwarf if they want.

    Regards, van0014
     
  3. currymonster

    currymonster First Technician

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    I'm sure Murray is fully capable of defending himself. However I think its important to point out, that Murray's reason for starting the thread was to discuss and that possibly RD may have had its day. It's always annoying watching a show run and run for series when it isn't as good as it used to be, and that possibly Doug and the team should bow out gracefully now, on a high. Or if they were to end it, I'd like to see at least write another special to being the show to a close.

    I don't agree that there shouldn't be any more RD, I'd love to see more as long as its written well blah blah etc covering old ground, but to say Murray must hate RD because he didn't like 1 part of it, and his opinion that they shouldn't be any more is a rather steep conculsion to come to.

    As has been pointed out time and again, most fans on here have episodes of the original 8 series that they don't like. Some love series 7, some hate it. Does that mean they hate RD simply because 1 episode, the feel, is worse than others? And because they would rather remember the series for being great, rather than just ok, "it was good but ...." ???
     
  4. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Terminator8256, while I agree with much of what you say, this sort of statement :

    just isn't fair.

    The fact is, in any fanbase there are individuals with different tastes. As for Back To Earth, it did have a different feel to it compared to many of the series. I largely liked it, and I wouldn't mind more of the same, but I can certainly understand why some didn't. And it's not for me to say that they're not a fan because they don't.
     
  5. van0014

    van0014 Skutter

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    Ok, i agree with you there. I wasn't thinking clearly when i made the post. I wrote it quickly. But i hope the whole post still conveys the same message implied at the end of it. Thanks for pointing that out. At the time, though, i meant what i said. I believed that if any one person likes Red Dwarf, then after just 3 episodes hate it, they may be going a bit far wanting the series out because of it. I just think it should be given a chance. It may change in the future and become better. Then again, it may not. We may just have to wait and see what happens.

    Regards,
    van0014 AKA:
    terminator7256
     
  6. CallMeAce

    CallMeAce Third Technician

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    I quite enjoyed them, although they wern't as ingenius as original episodes i still think they were very good under the circumstances.
     
  7. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    What do you mean by 'under the circumstances'?
     
  8. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Presumably the circumstances involving the show having to be made by a minor digital channel instead of the BBC. The circumstances involving it having to be made on next to no budget. The circumstances involving Doug Naylor having to use his own funds to purchase a smart car for them to turn into carbug and many people pretty much offering their time for free to work on a labour of love. The inability to use a live audiance even if they'd wanted to because of budgetry reasons. The inability to use all the actors they wanted because of time/budgetry reasons.

    Then there is the fact that the cast are all visibly older now and they are trying to tell a new story while also trying to produce a piece of fan-servicing nostalgia that might also turn out to be the last chance they get to end the show on a high.

    It's not as if there weren't 'circumstances' to be factored in to the production of BTE which was about as far away from producing the original series as it seems it was possible to get.
     
  9. van0014

    van0014 Skutter

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    An outstandingly well-made point. It is clear the Red Dwarf crew really tried with BTE to keep it up to standard in the most extremely difficult conditions. Somehow, some people didn't appreciate the last episode very much, but they may not have known about the situations the producers faced.

    In my opinion, i believe if enough profits are made from BTE and its ad-revenue, we may be in for a spectacular new series. People also believed BTE was some sort of guideline of what we should expect any further series or episodes to be like. The reason BTE was not as good as some people expected was based on an (extremely) limited budget. Without the budget as a factor in its production, it would have been truly brilliant. If more people could understand this, maybe they would show more respect for Red Dwarf.

    It would be very sad to see Red Dwarf end just because of limited funds. It still has very much potential
     
  10. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Oh sure. I suppose the limited budget was to blame for Doug Naylor not writing a brilliant story that he's fully capable of doing, instead of plagiarizing Blade Runnner. (A necessary requirement for parody is humor. Which granted a few scenes that alluded to Blade Runner were humorous -- the photo cropping instantly comes to mind. But so many were just "Oh hey look, this is just like in Blade Runner!" As if catching the reference is supposed to be entertainment enough...) The complaining about the absence of the studio audience is annoying. It IS 2010. If they want to do without the audience, that's fine by me. But other than THAT complaint (which may or may not be budget related) and other than Norman Lovett's complaining (which of course WAS budget related), the fans who weren't too happy with BTE had no beef with its budget constraints.

    To put it succinctly:

    IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE WRITING!
     
  11. CallMeAce

    CallMeAce Third Technician

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    Well bedfordfalls did a brilliant job of expanding on my point there. The limitations of a 9/10 year gap were always going to restrain what they could achieve. As would the lack of pretty much any form of budget.
     
  12. Skyfox

    Skyfox Third Technician

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    He did not plagiarise. He fully referenced ( as you did also point out) where the idea was from in both the episode and documentaries... Not sure you have quite got the gist of what plagiarising actually is. Personally I did not think the writing was that bad, true is could have been better, but it does set itself up for so much more...
     
  13. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Red Dwarf has always been made on a minuscule budget and always did pretty well. OK granted this may have been a lot smaller budget than previous shows but that shouldn't matter that much. If it is written well you could do the whole thing in one room and it would be fantastic (Marooned was pretty much done that way and that was a great episode). I think Red Dwarf is better with an audience (the actors play well off them) but even series 7 without the audience was better.

    I don't think their age has anything to do with it. The original idea for RD had an older Lister than was cast for a start. And fair enough they are trying to restart the show without losing old fans but it could have been done so much better.

    True there were circumstances that affected the production of it but they still did a pretty good job in a lot of areas. The sets looked great and the effects worked very well, its just a shame they were so badly let down by the script. Doug can do so much better than this.

    In a lot of ways I do agree with the title of this topic. I would prefer to see Red Dwarf finish on a high rather than fade away with dwindling ratings. Fawlty Towers and the Young Ones both ended while they were still popular and are well remembered because of it. How many people actually watched the X Files after about series 5? I would love to see more Red Dwarf but only if it is as good as it can be and then have it end with us wanting more, not on life support.
     
  14. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Here's the thing Larry: I know what "plagiarizing" is. Not quite sure you've got the gist of what "hyperbole" is. My use of the word "plagiarize" was not meant to be taken literally. I used it in a criticizing sense. Which I further backed up by pointing out the lack of humor in some of those scenes lifted right out of blade runner.

    In other words: Those parts of BTE might as well have been considered plagiarism (because they were that bad). Though I'm pretty sure Rutger Hauer didn't cause a bunch of rakes to fly up and hit his mates in the face at any time during Blade Runner ;-)

    Look, I love Red Dwarf. And to tell the truth I don't agree with this thread's title. At all. I just want Doug to write Dwarf. Not re-write Blade Runner. And not to overcompensate for the lack of Rob Grant by trying to write bits that just aren't Doug. I know I probably sound arrogant and presumptuous (like I really KNOW who Doug is!) and I apologize if I do. But when I read "Last Human", I'm in awe of how amazing the book really is. Not one wasted/stupid joke. Almost all original, all Doug.

    I love Doug Naylor. I love that his love for Red Dwarf continues. I just KNOW he can do better than BTE. I've read it... It's called "Last Human".

    Ps. And in my opinion I saw a lot of potential for the new Dwarf after watching BTE. And it is my fondest hope that the return of Dwarf will be a triumphant one. But I'm sorry, I just don't see BTE being all that triumphant... But it'll get there... I hope.
     
  15. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    To be fair, you are right that there weren't 'no laughs'. I do remember laughing... once. An extra emotional depth is all very well but a sitcom should be able to make you laugh more than once. Blackadder has one of the best and most emotional endings of any show let alone any sitcom and that episode still gave plenty of laughs.

    I'm not complaining that it lacked a bit of polish or that it could do with a little tightening up. I think it could have done with being binned and re-written. As Dwight said, we know Doug can write fantastically well on his own, so why did it end up feeling like it was just copied from old episodes and Blade Runner?

    I think RD lost something when Rob left. I enjoyed 7 and 8 but they aren't nearly as re-watch-able as the earlier series.

    I can list a dozen shows off the top of my head that I am still interested in even though they haven't done anything new for years (and in some cases most of the people involved are dead). The Goon Show is still worth listening to. Dad's Army is worth watching. Monty Python is still fantastic. They haven't done anything really in years but the shows haven't been forgotten (ok maybe the Goon Show a bit as it is a radio show not TV but it still shows up in places like QI)
    The quality of a show can vary and some shows do go down hill then recover but there comes a time when every show finishes and I would rather remember Red Dwarf as being a great show that I wished there had been more of, than a show that was good to start with but just got boring and unwatchable. I would like to think that it can rise from the ashes with a fantastic new series but I'm just not sure we are going to get that.
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Then you could have answered your own question surely :roll:

    But was Back to Earth trying to be a sit-com? I'm not by any means convinced that it was and didn't really expect it to be. Just because it shares the same medium doesn't mean that a show featuring the same characters has to be any more of a sit-com than a book featuring the same characters. Maybe you went into it with the wrong expectations.

    Personally I don't see why the two different types of show can't co-exist and specials like this can't provide a more arc driven format to compliment the traditional series.
     
  17. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Of course if you looked at what was actually written instead of just parts of sentences then you would realise the first point was about the whole thing including how good BTE actually was and the second was saying that while there were things that could affect the production value they shouldn't have been that detrimental to the script. I was trying to find out what circumstances would lead Doug to produce such a pathetic script in the first place, not why the effects might not be as good as they could be or why they couldn't afford an audience.

    There seemed to be several attempts at jokes including one that just made me want to cry when I realised they were going to try it (no I can't remember what it was exactly - I think my mind has blanked most of BTE in an act of self-preservation - but I do remember putting my head in my hands and thinking "oh god they are going to do that 'joke'"). Plus any show that uses the hand-dryer bit and carbug and, if I remember correctly, the rake gag is probably going for the sitcom not a serious show.
    But anyway I started watching BTE expecting it to be enjoyable. I do apologise if that was the wrong thing for me to expect.
     
  18. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Nope, not heard that before. Where did you hear it?

    Fair point although that was in reply to him saying I was expecting a sitcom and that he didn't think it was a sitcom rather than how much we enjoyed it.
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Simon's main complaint (if I've got it right) was that BTE wasn't funny for him and I think much of this comes from his preconception of what style the show was going to be. For him it seems like funnyness is the be all and end all but for me it isn't that important in a story driven special so long as there is some humour (which I think there was). My favorite parts of the show were the bits where it wasn't remotely trying to be funny, i.e the rememberance garden, the bus scene and the beautiful bittersweet ending. My least favorate were the bits that tried to be sit-commy in a show that was so obviously not intended to be one.

    I don't personally know how anybody who's developed a long lasting interest in these characters (particularly Lister) couldn't find those scenes compelling but that's just me. Perhaps though I can see how they might have annoyed someone who was expecting something more akin to the pantomime sillyness that was series 8 and just doesn;t like all that character development stuff.

    Again, I don't see why both syles of Dwarf can't exist, with a more tranditional six part series being bookended by story arc progressing drama-type specials or why anyone would hate the specials for trying to be something different to the series.
     
  20. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Actually my main complaint is that I don't think it was any good. Character development is perfectly fine and I definitely wasn't expecting pantomime silliness. Red Dwarf has done well by evolving what sort of show it is so I'm not expecting it to be exactly the same as it was last time.
    The problem I had with BTE was that the comedy parts weren't funny and the serious parts weren't interesting. It didn't seem like RD had evolved, it seemed more like it was just copying ideas from various sources. It copied the despair squid from series 5, far too much from Blade Runner and all the metaphysical crap from Star Trek TNG.
    I don't hate the specials for trying to be something different to the series. I dislike them because I don't think they were done very well. And it annoys me that Doug Naylor who I know can write well let us down with BTE. It should have been good.
     
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