There should not be any more Red Dwarf.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Murray, Nov 15, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Location:
    Nottingham United Kingdom
    I've already said that my comments were aimed at those who are not willing to accept that there are other people who do want more Dwarf. I may not have made that as clear as I could have, but it was written in haste and in a p***** off state at some peoples attitudes. If you want to see it as a personal attack, then fine. I'm not going to apologise and I really couldn't care less.


    Now this just strikes me as a peculiar attitude to have. If you find yourself enjoying the new shows, you'll still be wishing it to stop?!! If I wanted a show to stop and it carried on, and I actually enjoyed the new shows, I'd be willing to accept that perhaps I was wrong to have wished it to stop in the first place.

    And on the realisation that you are not willing to change your opinion, even if the shows prove themselves to actually be good, I think I'll leave it. There's obviously no logical thought or reason going on in there. Good bye.
     
  2. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

    Messages:
    3,627
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, England
    You make a claim that can be taken multiple ways. You only mean it one way, and cause offence to those who see it another way. You refuse to apologise to those people though, because they are stupid for not being mind-readers and seeing it the way you meant it. I believe this to be an accurate summation of your stance.

    See my reference to 24. Despite finding preference in a later series, I still think it should have ended sooner. To keep something going just because you like it can lead to what more than enough TV shows suffer from in the end, and going on too long, passing their peak and becoming rather poor before the end. In the case of 24 the show really seemed to have lost its way and recycled itself many times before it finally ended. At least in my opinion it had. To want to see a show end on a high, or not risk dragging itself into a pit, is not exactly a peculiar attitude, and one that should be quite apparent to people. I can see things continue well and still feel it should have ended, and not be "wrong" on the matter. As I said before, these things are not black and white.

    Ah, I do so love an intelligent thought. My opinion differs to yours, so I have no logical thought or reason? I don't see everything the way you do, so I have no logical thought or reason? Or perhaps, at the end of all things, it comes down to the simple fact that the problem lies with you. You cannot accept that I do not share your opinion, so rather than live and let live, to "agree to disagree" or anything of that nature, your arrogance demands that I must have no logical thought or reason. And to think, if you had the faintest shred of common sense to merely apologise for the nature of your remark that had started all of this, none of this would have ever happened. But that would mean conceding there can be opinions that are not yours.
     
  3. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Location:
    Nottingham United Kingdom
    I'll tell you what. I'm going to give you your apology. And I am going to mean it 100%.

    I am wrongly working under the assumption that the "There should not be any more Red Dwarf" crowd are all people who have had nothing good to say about the show for a long time. BtE haters who do nothing but bad mouth the 2009 Easter specials and consider anyone who likes them as wrong. That is the attitude that offends me and eventually lead me to crack and write my post. I hadn't thought about people who want the show to end out of a genuine love of the show. People who want it to end on a high and not petter out into insignificance. I hadn't realised until now that you were coming from that train of thought. I've just gotten so used to the negative "nay-sayers".

    So, to Daniel, and to all people I may have offended who have a genuine desire for the show to finish out of a love of the show- I whole heartedly apologise. My initial comment could be misinterpreted and cause offence where it isn't intended. My own doing. Sorry.


    And now that is behind us (I hope) can we get back to speculating what we think the new shows might bring?
     
  4. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Location:
    Nottingham United Kingdom
    Although it isn't a view that I share when it comes to Red Dwarf, I can see the logic in wanting it to end on a high.

    The best examples I can come up with was the news that Dexter has two more seasons to go. With a definite deadline and careful writing, it can all end perfectly with a clearly plotted direction and finale.

    Lost is an example of how directionless writing and unknown amounts of padding can just ruin a show. It didn't pick up again until a definite deadline came into play and they suddenly had a direction.

    That said though, I don't see Red Dwarf going this way. It's lack (at least so far) of on going larger story arc and episodic format means that, in my opinion, they could continue providing quality, funny and entertaining storylines for much longer. BtE has, as far as I'm concerned, set up an interesting and new direction for which to follow up with a good series.
     
  5. supercat

    supercat Console Officer

    Messages:
    4,314
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Location:
    Up The Owls!
    Two including the series (6) that's airing in America at the moment or two more after? :s
     
  6. Jo TORDFC

    Jo TORDFC Second Officer Fan Club Team

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Location:
    London, England
    Maybe *you* can't, but many people count themselves as fans of Fawlty Towers, myself and my other half among them. One of my favourite Whedon projects is Dr. Horrible, it has a running time of 42 minutes, but I'd still say that I was a fan. Quantity doesn't automatically equal better; Please see: My Hero (6 series), My Family (11 series), Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps (9 series).

    All that said... I am very happy that they're making more Red Dwarf, I really enjoyed BtE which set up a great series arc (The search for Kochanski) and I can't wait to see the individual episode storylines Doug has come up with :-)
     
  7. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Location:
    Nottingham United Kingdom
    2 after the current one airing I believe.

    Exactly how I feel on the subject.
     
  8. KingR76

    KingR76 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    I'm a big Fan of "The Young Ones" that had twelve episodes, and since 82 (First Series) and 84 (Second series - it ended after the second because they wanted to do a Fawlty Towers (well one of the reasons and end there) has amassed a huge cult Following.
     
  9. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Sorry, I was in the bathroom ... did I miss anything?

    Thank you to the people about a year and a half ago who pointed out that this is wrong. I am a huge fan of Red Dwarf; it ranks among my favourite shows of all time. And yes, I still believe that there should be no more Red Dwarf, and am hugely disappointed that they're making more.

    Some people seem to have issue with me stating the thread title as a fact rather than an opinion. I would counter that by saying that when a comedy show isn't funny and is only being made on the back of the reputation the show has, then it ceases to be an opinion. It's a logical deduction. And I think I've been pretty vindicated in the last couple of years since I made this thread. While classic Red Dwarf enjoys the same popularity it always has, Back To Earth has been forgotten and gathers dust in the corners of people's comedic memories as ... something which happened and wasn't funny. Shows which have lost their edge should stop instead of drawing themselves out, and Red Dwarf lost it's edge; I've never seen anybody deny that.

    I also know that there's some people who've drawn issue with it cutting out their opinion that they want to see more Red Dwarf, even if it isn't of the same quality as the classic episodes. Well, I'm sorry, but that's a selfish opinion in terms of the Red Dwarf legacy. People wanting more of something instead of letting it pass away gracefully is why we had the most perfect of endings to Scrubs ruined. If Scrubs had finished at Season 8, with that montage and J.D. walking away to that music, we would've had the perfect, dignified ending that we could've remembered. But instead we had Season 9: Med School ... and I hopefully don't need to tell anyone the catastrophe that ensued there. The same story with Indiana Jones (and I don't think anyone here is going to try and defend Kingdom of the Crystal Skull). A common response against this is to say:

    And you really should know that's not how it works. I can't pretend that Back to Earth didn't happen, or that Scrubs: Med School didn't happen, or any of the other shows ... anymore than you can pretend that your team never lost that quarter-final, or only remember the good parts of being with that ex-girlfriend, rather than the horrible mess that it ended up being at the end before the break-up. It's part of Red Dwarf history now. And destroying the legacy of Red Dwarf because you want to see a few more cringeworthy, unfunny Rob Grantless episodes which are more focused on dated slapstick humour and weak attempts at emotional drama over witty character comedy is dishonoring the show that you love.

    If you love Red Dwarf ... let it go. I have. I have the DVDs and the memories.

    (Hello future me. If you're reading this, you came back to this thread after two years. Again. You're a gimboid. Get back to bed with the girl you should have got with by now (you know the one) and leave the computer alone.)
     
  10. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

    Messages:
    3,627
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, England
    Because you fail to see the comedic elements does not cast it as fact. It casts you as an arrogant twerp. The success of Back to Earth, which record viewing figures and strong DVD/Blu-ray sales confirm (the second point I have no concrete evidence for, but I'm sure someone here does so can back that up), works as a counter to your argument. You can see it as not funny and worth gathering dust somewhere, and that is your opinion and all well and good. Not fact.

    Yes, great endings can be ruined by a continuation, but it's not just people clamouring for more than does it. The creators have to still create more, or allow more to be made. If they felt it was an ending and wanted it to stop, they could have, as many shows have done by writing for a perfect ending (Frasier springs to mind here, which ended on a fantastic note because the writer's wrote it to an end and stopped). However, people demanding more because they want it is just as selfish as people demanding no more because they don't want it. The final choice belongs to Doug Naylor and the people willing to give him the chance to produce more, and they've all decided they want more.

    King Richard, you're up! You've defended Indy 4 around here once already, time to do it again. I can't bring myself to do so because I hate the film, but you can do it!

    If you don't watch them, you won't know if they are good or crap. If you have a preconception, that alone will ruin things for you. For instance I never watched Indy 4 for a long time, because I didn't want to. It didn't tarnish my views on the earlier films or anything like that, because there was no opinion. Then I saw it, and wished I hadn't. It didn't tarnish the earlier films, but in my eyes it hurt the franchise. Until I saw it, it didn't. What this basically translates to is that you are successfully destroying the legacy of Red Dwarf in your own eyes, already predicting how episodes that have not been seen will play out. Therefore, the "fact" of how bad things are truly is your own opinion, and a demented form of illogical thought that is accompanying it.

    As a side note, Rob Grant on his own could mess things up as bad as Doug Naylor on his own could mess things up, as bad as Rob Grant and Doug Naylor working together could mess things up. In much the same way as any of the three combinations could create something wonderful, or something very much rooted in the average or mediocre. Rob Grant was not the be all and end all of Red Dwarf humour, no matter what some people misguidedly believe.


    ps. All this is coming from somebody who is very much in the camp of letting the show end. Your reasoning, or lack thereof, is just an absolute selfish digrace to the stance on this issue, and it reflects poorly on the rest of us.
     
  11. KingR76

    KingR76 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,180
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
     
  12. Jo TORDFC

    Jo TORDFC Second Officer Fan Club Team

    Messages:
    286
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Location:
    London, England
    Yes, you can. As previously stated: I do *exactly* this with Only Fools and Horses, once Del Boy, Rodney and Uncle Albert walk off into the sunset as millionaires, as far as I'm concerned, there is no more! I like that ending, I think it was a perfect way to end the show. Bringing it back and having them lose their money, was in my opinion, a huge mistake... So, I choose to ignore the rest of it; I'm happy with that, I don't feel that I'm missing out by not watching the newer episodes and I don't feel the need to go around telling people to "Let it die", that's really none of my business! If others enjoy it what's the problem? Doesn't affect me in any way :-)
     
  13. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

    Messages:
    833
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Location:
    Nottingham United Kingdom
    This threads constant resurfacing and inability to disappear into the forum archives lead me to lose my temper and hastily post an angry response. This lead to lengthy debate (argument maybe?....set to perhaps?) between myself and Daniel as can be read above and on the previous page. (One I ended up apologising for...)

    I find it quite funny (ironic maybe?...) that Daniel has responded to Murray in exactly the way I would have wanted somebody to. Both myself and Daniel have differing opinions on whether Red Dwarf should continue or not. It is safe to say, we don't exactly agree on what the future of the show should be....But one thing I think we both agreed on was that Back To Earth was actually really good, regardless of what some people would try and have you believe.

    So Murray, please come back when you know what you are talking about. Or at the very least, explain to us what wasn't funny and what was so awful. Because I see a few faults in BtE. But nothing that warrants this assumption you have!
     
  14. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

    Messages:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Uh ... record viewing figures for Dave. This is a channel which rarely breaks past 500,000 viewers at any one time. It's like saying "I've broken the world record! (For number of Starburst in mouth at once)". And given the fact that half of the viewers tuned out after the first episode, that's just vindication of what I'm saying; the mass public thought it sucked, fact. If it was on the BBC, it would've been designated a flop, and none of the "but it would've got far more ratings on the BBC!" speculation ... that's a flop any way you look at it. The only reason that Dave are making more is that the reputation of Red Dwarf is enough to get some diehard fans to tune in regardless, giving them ratings above the smattering they usually get. And I'm not big on a show I love being turned into some kind of ratings prostitute.

    And they're equally wrong. Dave's willingness is about selfish desire for ratings, and Naylor's reasoning is ... I don't even know. Lack of doing anything else famous in his career anymore, possibly.

    Really?

    I am never, ever going to be able to have a conversation with anyone about the show again (outside of maybe diehard Red Dwarf fans) without, at some point, the new stuff cropping up. It's now embedded in the public consciousness of Red Dwarf. And so the show goes from being one of the most loved sitcoms in British history to something which is embarrassingly still around past its prime. Never will there be conversations about "how good Red Dwarf was". It'll be "how good Red Dwarf was". You can't tell me that's not sad, especially if you're truly in the camp which says there shouldn't be more Dwarf.

    The Americans have their own version of this, which I've already mentioned. It's too late for Scrubs; they wrecked it. It's now, I fear, too late for Red Dwarf as well. Back To Earth as a one-off could be forgiven, just like that awful Blackadder Millenium film. A series? No.
     
  15. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

    Messages:
    4,307
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    Peterborough UK
    I'm a Star Wars fan, and to me George Lucas is both God and the Devil. Or, at the very least, a fallen hero.

    Otherwise, as much as I don't find as much value in Indy 4 or the prequel trilogy as you, I can't say anything against someone else finding pleasure in something. Also, you're the most enthusiastic person I've ever come across. Are you like this in real life?:-)
     
  16. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,103
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Location:
    Red Dwarf, Deep space
    for a while i classed doug naylor as being very like george lucas

    esp if you look at the remastered versions where things that should of been left alone got remastered because it was suppost to make the show better but just angered fans, but only differents is doug has sorta shown he regrets having remastered the show

    but then there is the whole style (CGI)over writing thing which doug has also shown to get abit over carried away with, and which is what what alot of people are critical about the star wars prequels

    and then there is the part where they both contradicted what they said in the past, as i believe george has made comments about the star wars films saying he always had it planned for 6 films, but i heard he has condraticted himself by saying differently in the 80s, and then there is doug naylor who said in 2009 that he always had plans for a new series after the first red dwarf movie, but in 2001 he actally said in fanclub magazine that he wanted to concentrate on movies rather then the tv series and maybe it would be concluded with a graphic novel

    i hope doug proves himself to be better with the new series
     
  17. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,970
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    A few points to pull you up on there.

    Firstly, George always planned it for 6 films, he started with the middle 3 and worked back. It's worldwide knowledge this was always the intention and approach, which makes star wars such a clever story.

    Secondly, Doug isn't contradicting himself there.. plans change, if there was not enough funding for the movie he had hoped for..hardly his own fault? He's simply had to make the best of what hes been given..BTE and a new series. We should be greatful we've got these.
     
  18. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,103
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Location:
    Red Dwarf, Deep space
    well yeah because he says it was his intention all along, but i have heard some hardcore star wars fans who are critical over this statement that he had it planned from the start

    sometimes i think you believe the first thing you hear to much

    id say its more of a not wanting to crawl back tail between legs, its better to say i always had it planned to make a new series then to say oh i never had it planned but now there will be no movie i'l make a new series :-)
     
  19. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

    Messages:
    3,627
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Location:
    Harlow, Essex, England
    Uh ... recording viewing figures for a digital channel. Which, despite you scoffing at it, is a significant fact. Although I must ask you, how is half the viewers not watching it evidence it sucked? Especially considering the competition from Saturday night viewing is a lot stronger, and the fact that if we disregard episode one the viewing figures for the other two remained impressive for the medium upon which it was broadcast. Ergo, your claim of "fact" is once again, grossly inaccurate. I would suggest you consult a dictionary to learn the meaning of the term before you bandy it about still further.

    If it was on the Beeb and managed a couple of million viewers.. not a total flop, when you think about it. Getting several times the typical viewing figures on the channel it did air: not in any way a flop. In fact, that might even be construed quite the success. And although you are happy to disregard any suggestion of more ratings on the Beeb, you need to accept the higher exposure the Beeb has and therefore it is not exactly unreasonable to suggest its figures would have been higher. But that is still specualation, so isn't relevant to this.

    You know what, you're right. How dare a commercial TV channel give a damn about ratings! What bastards! They are real scum of the Earth they are, to be trying to fulfil their purpose of existence. I mean, that's almost as bad as people I know daring to breathe in order to survive. Absolutely atrocious and despicable behaviour!

    So let me get this straight, because they've done something of which you disapprove, you can never enjoy the existing episodes? If you can't speak of how good the show was, then that is the crux of the point. It is also clear you are operating on two points: 1. the unseen, unaired, unfilmed episodes are going to be of poor quality, and 2. everybody is going to share your opinion and hate them. Until the episodes have aired, only the die-hard fans are going to care. One way or the other. Once they air, the public consciousness of Red Dwarf as you call it will be determined by the quality of the episodes, which could be amazing, they could be appalling, or they could anywhere inbetween. So try to wrap your head around this concept: will there instead be questions of "how good Red Dwarf is"? I know already that your answer is this state of affairs will never happen, but that's because you are narrow-minded and have prejudged things already, and too dense to grasp that the rest of us haven't. Including those of us in the camp who say there shouldn't be any more. The only thing I find sad is that people associate us with people like you, who drag down the human race, let alone those of us standing here.

    If things turn out bad, and all people talk of is how good the show was back its prime, then so be it. Because no matter what happens that is a fact that cannot be changed. In its prime, running from 1988-1993, the show was a thing of pure brilliance and has rightfully earned its place in the hearts of comedy loving people all over the world. Say what you like about Series VII, Series VIII, Back to Earth and all that is yet to come, nothing will ever change that.
     
  20. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,103
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Location:
    Red Dwarf, Deep space
    technically it did do very well, tv has changed since 1999, with freeview and sky tv and a dozen more channels, BACK TO EARTH did better then both bbc2 and channel 4

    and sky 1 spent about 6 million on a tv film called "Skellig" and it gained just over a million viewers which they were pretty happy with, and then there is "an idiot abroad" which apparently is most watched show on sky tv or something like that and yet that gets just over a million also, but then there was back to earth... last episode alone got just under 3 million (years? no viewers) and it had an incredibly low budget

    i admit that a drop of a million is pretty bad, but im sure even dougs abit disapointed about that as he tends to count all the viewing figures to add up to 11 million which seems like abit of a movie dreaming figure like oh the movie earnt 11 million at the box office


    yes obviously dave want the success of the show on there channel, but its in the fans favour also really and the amount of excitment this new series has started is pretty incredible
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page