There should not be any more Red Dwarf.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Murray, Nov 15, 2009.

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  1. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Describing 2.9 million viewers as disastrous (the aggregate viewership for Episode 3 of BTE) for Dave is idiotic. I mean, Red Dwarf BTE rated better than current well advertised/publicised BBC Two shows Rev and Life's Too Short and it did it on a cable channel with the middle episode against Britain's Got Talent.

    If Red Dwarf BTE was a disaster, I guess The Inbetweeners is too as that gained similar ratings in its last series on a similarly rated channel at a time when more people had access to Freeview.

    If you didn't like BTE, fine. Don't twist figures to fit your view though.
     
  2. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Sounds like a silly suggestion to me..;-) I would prefer not to watch it, then complain about how dredful it was, and to make somewhat unfair assumptions about Doug and his main motivations for making it. :lol:

    Why feel like a wally? did your helium powered underpants not fit?.

    Andrew wrote
    And he's taking his profile photo with him too! so...There!..;-)

    Place your bets now as to whether Andrew will returnuth during the episode airing period. :-)


    Edit; oh and yeah, as has been said by others, viewing figures are merely a guide, and further more, they certainly do not account for the majority of us who watched it, by a long shot.
     
  3. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    Dave would commission a pig wearing lipstick kicking a ball around a pen if they thought it could get them some ratings above the tiny ones they get for their reruns of good shows.

    Saying that Back To Earth was a huge success implies you didn't see it? They went to Coronation Street. Case rested. Regardless, I refer thee back to the fact that half of the viewers stopped watching after the first episode, and the DVD sales ...

    Take Amazon as a benchmark. Place on the bestsellers list for Back To Earth? #2,144. To put that in perspective, the complete series 1-8 Red Dwarf boxset is placed #344. Unless someone wants to come up with any actual sales figures (which I'm assuming aren't good, all the evidence points that way) ... I'm going to say there's nothing which suggests that it was "a huge success".

    Oh mate ... you didn't just tell me not to twist figures, and then quote inaccurate numbers which a quick Google ascertains you acquired from Wikipedia, did you?

    None of the episodes of Back To Earth got 2.9 million viewers. The first got 2.36 million, which dropped to 1.24m for the second epsiode, and 1.20m for the third. That's catastrophically bad leaking of viewers. And just to show you that's not normal, let's take your example of The Inbetweeners. It's second series (the one I think you were referring to, since its latest series got way in excess of the figures you seem to believe, and was airing around the same time as BTE) had these ratings:

    2 April 2009 1.21m
    9 April 2009 1.182m
    16 April 2009 1.057m
    23 April 2009 1.015m
    30 April 2009 1.205m
    7 May 2009 1.205m

    Same story for the other two series. Maintained a steady amount of viewers all the way through the run, not dropping significantly. All of these figures are verifiable via BARB. And it's also interesting you bring up Life's Too Short. It's not doing very well either, currently being universally regarded as a flop ... I wonder if it lost any significant amount of viewing figures after its first episode?

    Which one of us is twisting figures to fit their view ... the one who bothered to look up accurate figures before forming an opinion, or the one who's taking obviously wrong numbers and assuming they're right because they say something they'd rather believe? Please don't tell me I'm twisting figures, when I appear to be the only one here interested in the accuracy of the numbers (especially of DVD sales figures, which is confusing because certain people want to claim that those sales were fantastic and proof that BTE was a success, while don't want to post any figures at the same time. Odd that.)

    Back To Earth was not a success. Not by any definition we'd used that word.
     
  4. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Nope. They are from the official website that we are on now.

    Figures don't get more accurate than the horses mouth.
     
  5. Julia

    Julia Catering Officer

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    Short sweet and straight to the point, everyone has a right to 'their' opinion. I think the ticket sales and how fast they went indicates that there are people WHO DO want more. You have a right to suggest that personally YOU dont want more but to indicate that true fans shouldnt either is just selfish. Not everyone feels the same and personally myself i am actually looking forward to the airings and WILL buy the dvd when it comes out. It will end a very long show which i have loved from the beginning and i will happily watch it.This is MY opinion and one im sure people will share. Let the ratings and dvd sales tell you any other and then comment.
     
  6. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    They also include the repeat figure from Monday and the early hours repeats a few hours after original airing.

    Besides, even just taking the figure Murray provided, 1.2m for Episode 3 is spectacular for Dave (even though it actually achieved 1.33m, he missed out the Dave Ja Vu airing, ITV and C4 adds them to their ratings, we will too), that doesn't include the 0.75m repeat figure from Monday either.

    Just going by these figures it achieved the following:
    Episode 1:
    Friday - 2.6m
    Monday - 0.62m
    Total - 3.22m
    Finals - 4m

    Episode 2:
    Saturday - 1.7m (this aired against BGT, as a result it achieved a higher than usual Dave Ja Vu figure)
    Monday - 0.72m
    Total - 2.42m
    Finals - 3m

    Episode 3:
    Sunday - 1.33m
    Monday - 0.75m
    Total - 2.05m
    Finals - 2.9m

    Making of:
    Sunday - 0.62m
    Monday - 0.34m
    Total - 0.96m
    Finals - 1.5m

    Also the repeat of 'Gunmen of the Apocalypse' on Friday achieved 1m viewers. Spectacular ratings for a repeat.

    If Episode 1 achieved what episode 3 achieved it would still be a success. You can't deny that. Well you can but you would be wrong.

    Also for comparison, I only have one percentage figure, BTE1 had 12% of the viewing audience at time of broadcast, the usual viewership of Dave as a percentage of viewing audience is usually around 0.8%-1.0%.
     
  7. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    look this new series is happening no matter if anyone likes it or not, get used to it

    the arguement of "there should not be any more red dwarf" is pointless because we are getting more red dwarf, and judging by fans reaction to the new series id say chances are the shows will get over a million viewers and if dave are happy with that then great, plus over sea's and dvd sales which is more then dave could possibly ask for, i mean look at the bbc milking red dwarf dvds like anything
     
  8. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    I don't know which mysterious part of "the media" you work in, but it's obviously a new and exciting one where an objective barometer of "success" is "whether or not they went to Coronation Street".

    The people at Granada must be kicking themselves over what they've spent the last 51 years making, then.
     
  9. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    My guess is The Daily Mail. Or perhaps the BBC.

    After all his attempts to prove Back To Earth's failure with figures, ultimately he's resorted to good old-fashioned, subjective, 'I didn't like it, therefore it must have been a failure!'
     
  10. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I'm not a fan of soap operas and that includes Coronation Street (although if I did watch them, I think I'd prefer Corrie above the others from the bit that I have seen. They're not opposed to a bit of comedy, for one thing.) I really enjoyed the Corrie scenes in Back To Earth though. They had me laughing out loud in places, and I liked the metafictional aspect with...

    *Spoiler alert, although probably not needed here*

    Lister meeting Craig Charles. (I kinda wished they'd had time to have the other characters meet their 'actor real-selves', but that would have been superfluous to the story. I can imagine a novel version of BtE being an interesting read though.) And Simon Gregson turned out to be a decent comedy actor, in a minimalistic way. He and Craig (character and actor, in this case) were great together.
     
  11. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    :lol: T'is a good point indeed.

    Although to be fair to our 'media expert' Murray here, the fact that a show is popular in a mainstream sense doesn't necessarily mean it was a good idea to incoporate it into a show such as Red Dwarf. Neither does a show's mainstream popularity necessarily make it one of quality and substance. I mean, drinking silly amounts of alcohol to the point of falling over and regurgitating is fairly popular in a widespread sense too, yet is not a passtime many of us would concider of much substance or real worth...bit of a strawman there i know, but stay with me on this ;-)

    However, just because shows like Corrie are popular and therefor have a certain set style, structure and fan base, doesn't necessarily make them bad shows either (same with the simplistic catchy pop songs that taunt many of us every day on the radio whether we like it or not (eg; in many work places). Whether it be popular or not has no significance as to how 'good' or 'bad' it actually is.

    Nor does it mean it shouldn't have been incorporated into an anninversary special of Red Dwarf simply because of it's more widespread mainstream element, and therefor is concidered "uncool" by a certain sub-set of people, including many (but certainly not all) Red Dwarf fans, who felt it tainted the integrity of RD in some way.

    My point?,..snobism sucks, and unfortunately tends to come from all sides, tending to sway opinions in some very one sided objective ways.

    I personally loved the corrie part of BTE and thought it worked well (although the soap itself and all it's repetitive story lines and rather dull writing (in my view) bores me almost to tears nowadays)

    I can fully understand why some don't like the BTE/Corrie scenes. But to use the fact that they went to Corronation Street as an example in and of itself as to how bad BTE was, seems a little unfair and blatantly biased to say the least.

    You (Murray) didn't even attempt to explain what it is you don't like about those scenes, other than the fact that you appear to dislike Coronation street as a show in and of itself.

    But if your reasoning goes beyond that, then do explain. I know all too well what it's like to have false assumptions aimed at me by those who don't understand the true reasonings and so claim snobbism (or reversed snobbism, whatever that is..?). But from the information you (murray) have provided so far about this particular aspect, it seems like there's somewhat of a predetermined biased view point guiding your proposed point.
     
  12. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I actually thought the 'Corrie' bit was the best part. It was the only bit that felt different enough that it didn't feel like a poor shadow of previous dwarf. Just my opinion.
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  14. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    Both Dave and Dave Ja Vu were on Freeview in 2009. Dave Ja Vu has since been taken off so it'll get a lower timeshift probably. Though Dave Ja Vu may be back by late 2012.
     
  15. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    really? i swear they only had dave ja vu back then
     
  16. Murray

    Murray Second Technician

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    Or, say ... the Broadcaster's Audience Research Board. :roll:

    If you're going to compare figures, you do it where the figures are both accurate and comparable to each other. Not by taking a figure which has obviously been inflated with "additional viewings" or some such rubbish and posted on an official website for the show to look good.

    Yes, it isn't accurate. But you have to admit ... having it in the 2000s isn't good.

    People were claiming that DVD sales were good, and that BTE was a success on that basis. I've seen no evidence of that, and the people peddling that theory don't seem able to come up with any either. I'll put a question to you though ... DVDs which sell well usually have their sales figures quoted as a result, hm? Especially when trying to drum up business for a new series? Makes you think.

    What on Io are you talking about? Life's Too Short is universally regarded as a flop because it's flopped, critically and in viewership. Back To Earth exhibited exactly the same pattern, as I showed ... the loss of viewers, the critical slamming from a whole lot of people. The only difference is that people are saying "But look, it got lots of viewers for the channel it was on". It's Red Smegging Dwarf, of course it was going to get more viewers than Dave is used to. It's Dave.

    Does that make it not a flop, because it got the record for Biggest Show On A Channel Nobody Watches Usually? I think not. Only someone who was seriously trying to put a good spin on Back To Earth for personal reasons would claim it wasn't a flop on that basis.

    The argument against Red Dwarf: Back To Earth being any good has always been a case of argumental Walls of Jericho. If you can play Israelite to the first point on the list of Back To Earth failings, then Back To Earth can be discussed seriously.

    The first point has, for the last two years, always been this: Coronation Street. Usually, I don't even have to say any more than that. Nobody has ever made it past that first point (which acts as a microcosm for the argument of the fourth-wall breaking metaplot). Most people don't even try. There's just a knowing look, and occasionally a visible cringe.

    I estimate there was at least 100,000 cats watching through people's windows too, you forgot to add those in. :roll:

    I go by the same viewing figures for everything: the base viewing figures. Because that's the only reasonable point you can compare shows with, unless there's extrenuating circumstances. Anything else is a quite astonishing display of hypocrisy for telling me I "twist figures" and then trying to claim BTE got 4m viewers for its first episodes by including reruns. Unbelievable.

    You flatter me, but I'm not a 'media expert'. Just 'expert' will be fine. 8)
     
  17. SoundableObject

    SoundableObject Catering Officer

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    I don't much care for the eye rolling and all around attitude. I'm ending here. You can go on ahead and try and say the statistics prove you right. You aren't convincing anybody anyway.
     
  18. Mellissa_Maple-Syrup

    Mellissa_Maple-Syrup Third Technician

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    Murray... what a tit.
     
  19. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    There should not be any more Murray.
     
  20. Jo TORDFC

    Jo TORDFC Second Officer Fan Club Team

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