Timeslides Theorys and Quistion

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by PsychoticallyDerangedkillersimulant, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. PsychoticallyDerangedkillersimulant

    PsychoticallyDerangedkillersimulant Third Technician

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    I just got done watching Time slides and I never noticed until now but when Rimmer returns after telling himself to promote the tension sheet , His H doesnt disapear until the Cat, Kryten and Lister re appear . How is it that whilst hes waiting for himself to disapear , dont the rest of gang realise that his H has gone . Instead they walk off all casually , even when Rimmer constantly yells im alive . Why dont they take a seconds glance to see what hes saying ?

    Just the luck I bet Chris got the script and was like yes im alive , only to find out hes going to get blown up .

    Also I was wondering if anyone could explain why Rimmer turned back into a living person , Ive heard the theory that since he was visited himself as a child . He wasnt as shocked when he came back in stasis leak , just wanted to know if there was another explanation . Additional ive read many people speculate why Rimmer still remembers Cat, Kryten , and Lister despite not meeting them . Rimmer is the singularity hes the fix between both realitys , just like Kryten explains to Lister in Inqusitor when Lister fails to see how Rimmer and Cat dont remember them .
     
  2. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    The timeline stuff in Timeslides doesn't quite add up, but if you think about it, when Kryten and Lister reappear, they're now in the timeline where Rimmer never died. So they wouldn't notice that he had changed, because he hadn't from their point of view! The change would have happened waaay back when Rimmer (for whatever reason, possibly having met his older self coming back?) decided to use the second stasis booth. Of course following that logic he should have become human the moment he stepped back out of the frame, or he'd just vanish and the human original would reappear with no memory of going back... Confusing isn't it?
     
  3. sanja

    sanja Supply Officer

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    You must love paradoxes ;-) they are great
     
  4. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    The theory I've always gone with is that young Rimmer remembered being visited by his future self, so was prepared when his future self turned up aboard Red Dwarf. This time around, he didn't dismiss him as a magic mushroom induced hallucination, but instead followed his advice and went into stasis.

    Also, the others shouldn't have any memory of the change to the timeline. After Lister, Cat and Kryten disappeared, Rimmer still had his memories of them. The best example is that Lister, Cat and Kryten don't pay attention to Rimmer at the best of times and weren't listening to him here. Plus, they were out of the room when Holly made her revelation that Rimmer was alive again.

    Alternatively, a wizard did it.
     
  5. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I love them and hate them!

    "Timeslides" makes no sense from beginning to end and is my least favourite episode as a result. I very rarely watch it.
     
  6. pole85

    pole85 First Technician

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    :lol: i like it
     
  7. DaveHOz

    DaveHOz Third Technician

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    IWCD says that Rimmer almost went into stasis on the day of the accident, but didn't make it in time because (as I recall) he stopped to comb his hair. Maybe visiting his younger self started a chain of events resulting in his not combing his hair at the critical moment, so he went into stasis, and didn't die.

    But I get your point about Timeslides' fundamental fallacies... I mean, how can developer fluid "mutate" when it's not alive to begin with?? And then how does it connect a photograph with the place/time it represents?? An episode like this seems a bit too close to fantasy / magic for sci-fi, though it being comedy makes it easier to suspend disbelief.
     
  8. ChangeOfPlan

    ChangeOfPlan Third Technician

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    Great topic and jmc2000 makes a good point there. In a system such as the universe it is impossible to predict the outcome because of the sensitivity linked with initial conditions. Look at the double pendulum experiment for example. Here even a simple system is impossible to predict after only a few moves because of its growing complexity. In fact in that case no 2 experiments are the same! It would be interesting to see what would happen if rimmer REPEATED his time travel experiment, just to see if he reappeared this time as a broom handle! :shock:
     
  9. Highjump

    Highjump Second Technician

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    That is a very good theory plus the butterfly affect.
     
  10. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Is this the one where Rimmer goes: "I can feel! I can fondle! I am ALIVE!" Wallops some boxes and the whole lot fall on top of him?
    :lol:
     
  11. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    Well, they were filled with explosives and, well, exploded... but yeah, same scene.
     
  12. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Thought so - classic scene! :lol:
     
  13. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    I've said this before, but I never realised the first time I saw it what the boxes contained and thought that Rimmer had just inexplicably suffered a spontaneous full-body explosion.
     
  14. snodgrass

    snodgrass Third Technician

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    Timeslides is a fun episode but it doesn't stand up to much scrutiny at all. If you think about it Lister going back in time to tell his young self to invent the tension sheet really doesn't make sense at all as he's just consigning himself to being dead in the current timeline. 3 million years have passed since then so it's not like Lister is going to actually get to live the life he wants for himself, when the timelines realign or whatever he's just going to have been dead for 3 million years. Or something :?
     
  15. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    The thing is though, everyone only has one lifetime in chronological terms. It's not like Lister has actually lived for around 3,000,025 years at that point because he's spent about 3,000,000 of them frozen in stasis as a non-event mass with a quantum probability of zero. Given the choice between living a full life on earth as a multi-millionaire or more or less alone aboard Red Dwarf, I'm not surprised he'd chose the former.
     
  16. OurJud

    OurJud Deck Sergeant

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    I thought this too... right up until I read your post.
     
  17. snodgrass

    snodgrass Third Technician

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    But his meddling in the timeslide merely changes the past. Once he steps out of the timeslide, and when the timelines reorganize he simply ceases to exist in the present timeline (along with the cat who then never existed at all). The life he will have gone on to live after convincing his young self to invent the tension sheet will still be in the past and whatever memory he would have had of it will have died with him 3 million years prior. His present self will have never benefited from it and indeed will not have existed - but then again Lister is a bit thick so maybe he didn't consider this. And there's another paradox...if he never made it onto Red Dwarf, he wouldn't have been able to go back in time to change his future in the first place. My head hurts :shock:
     
  18. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    No, he doesn't cease to exist in the present timeline because the present timeline re-adjusts to take into account that Lister now lived a life on Earth as the multi-millionaire entrepreneur inventor of the Tension Sheet and died around 3 million years back. It's just that in our "Now" as viewers of the show, 3 million years into the future Lister's long dead and events have taken a different path and just because the amended timeline's Lister no longer joined Red Dwarf and rescued Frankenstein or Kryten, doesn't mean he didn't benefit from living his amended lifestyle, even if he might not be aware of quite how differently things might have turned out.

    But, as you mention it, this does cause a paradox. If Lister was never on Red Dwarf, he could never have travelled back in time to present his younger self with the Tension sheet in the first place, so he would still have joined up with the JMC. To be honest, I don't think that Red Dwarf generally does Time Travel episodes very well and they seem to sort of mash together their time travel theories to suit whatever they need the story to do. Tikka to Ride is similarly shot through with plot holes and inconsistencies.

    That said, I personally find that if you can just go with the flow for the duration of the episode, they're usually pretty fun. Just don't go expecting them to stand up to much closer scrutiny.

    I still think it makes sense that, clearly at a low ebb, Lister might chose a rich man's life on Earth over a third technician's existence almost alone on an abandoned mining ship when presented with the option.
     
  19. clozan10

    clozan10 Skutter

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    Why Rimmer turned back into a living person?

    mmm ... maybe when Rimmer says:

    "Why does nothing ever go right for me? Everytime I get so much of a snifter of a break, a glimpse of a shadow of happiness, something inexplicably cruel and horrible happens and it all blows up in my face."????

    In other words, Rimmer giving his younger self a snifter of a break, a glimpse of a shadow of happiness meant that older Rimmer became human. But what Rimmer fails to see is that he also gives Thickie Holden the idea of the tension sheet.

    So when Rimmer comes back to the present and realises that he is not wealthy but is wealthy in being human, and expresses his glee regarding this transformation, he fails to see the explosive lables on the boxes, hence he blows up. So Rimmer just answered his own question, that is, he does it to himself.
     
  20. DAN_JMC

    DAN_JMC Catering Officer

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    It's a joke. I don't think it's made to make sense, it'sjust funny that he's so happy about being alive and then dies almost instantly.

    There are some good ideas on here about how it could make sense though
     

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