very upset and angry

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by neilold, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Went to vote this morning for UKIP. however, when I got into the booth, I found out UKIP weren't on the slip of paper, asked why and was told that I can't vote for them in the general election because they're not running local. This is a total bastard outrage and i'm extremely upset about it. as you know I take my politics and democracy VERY seriously. You should be allowed to vote for who you want to in the general election regardless of local elections, I mean after said party has gone through the correct political process of course that entitles them to stand in a general election. No wonder UKIP are gonna suffer, what's the point of even siding with a party if they're excluded on local grounds. I'm extremely upset by this, this is a direct attack on democracy itself and what it stands for , it's totally shook my belief in that word, and made a mockery of the entire system. What a total farce
     
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  2. Stephen

    Stephen Console Officer

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    Wasn't this made public before the voting that they wouldn't run in your constituency?
     
  3. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yes, but they should still be allowed to run in the general election, aside from running in the constituency
     
  4. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Neil. Nobody is stopping UKIP from running in your constituency. If they're not running in your constituency, they have CHOSEN not to run there - either through a shortage of candidates, or because they want people to vote Conservative for that particular seat, or some other reason. The only people you can be angry at for UKIP not standing where you are is UKIP themselves - nobody else has forced them into that position.
     
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  5. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I think it's fair to be angry at the electoral system which requires smaller parties to make those decisions. Under MMP the whole country gets to choose from the same parties regardless of whether they have local candidates there.
     
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  6. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    I mean, that's a different conversation, though. Neil's complaint was about UKIP apparently not being "allowed" to stand in his area, which is simply not true.

    I also do sort of slightly question how you didn't notice before today?
     
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  7. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    If I were registered to vote, I'd send these clowns a message by staying home on election day and dressing up like a clown.
     
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  8. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Console Officer

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    Neil, if you "take your politics very seriously", how come you didn't know they weren't running? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
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  9. Sarah

    Sarah Console Officer

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    I feel for Neil clearly we have very different views I voted green,but it must be really frustrating not being able to vote for something you feel passionate about,because of where you live!!
     
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  10. Pembers

    Pembers Deck Sergeant

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    As others have said you can't vote UKIP where you are because of UKIP, no one else, it's not an attack on democracy, you can't vote for a party that hasn't put up a candidate. I want to vote for Doug Naylor as PM but GNP haven't put a candidate in my area so I can't.
     
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  11. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Not complaining about them not being allowed to stand at all,your miles off seb. I'm complaining that in a general election, all parties that have gone through the correct process electoral process for standing for a general election should be allowed to. Seperately and completely aside from whether they are standing in local elections or not. It's total bs that they can't . You shouldn't have to be standing localy;, that should be in a separate section, on the ballot sheet. So one section for local elections, on the same day, and one for general electiin both on the same sheet
     
  12. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I'm not saying either that every single local candidate should be included in the general election. Just those that go through the general electoral process. I dunno what the hell you're talking about Nikki, it's got nothing to do with who they have running and where. It's not even really anything to do with ukip as such. It's the process
     
  13. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Under MMP you get two different votes, one for your Party Vote where everyone across the entire country gets the exact same parties, then one for your Local MP where issues like this can still arise, but no one understands or cares.
     
  14. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    But there AREN'T any local elections today! The general election system involves voting only for the candidate IN YOUR CONSTITUENCY. UKIP could have stood a candidate in your constituency if they wanted to. They didn't. It has nothing to do with local elections, it has nothing to do with being "allowed" to stand.

    You seem to be under the impression that we have a national voting system, like in the USA. We DON'T! We have a parliamentary system of constituencies. You can only vote for your local candidate. This is how the British system has been for hundreds and hundreds of years!
     
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  15. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Console Officer

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    I can't decide if this thread makes me want to :lol: or :picard: so I'm just gonna do both for a bit :lol::picard::lol::picard::lol::picard::lol::picard::lol::picard::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::picard::picard::picard::picard::picard:

    No, and you clearly don't know what the hell YOU'RE talking about either :lol: "Take politics very seriously" indeed!! :lol:
     
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  16. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Then i'm confused then, why does the ballot paper have the name of the local mp on it, instead of the party leader, why does it say the name of my local labour mp, instead of Jeremy Corbyn labour? I no we have a parliamentary system of constituencies.. I assumed that local elections went towards who ended up in charge of said constituencies, and general elections were for the entire country as a whole, I'm actually not as daft as I must sound, because very time I've voted in the past in a general election my ballot paper has had two names on it, one with my local candidate and one with the party leader in it, both in the same box. Therefore I assumed my vote went towards the local leader and the leader of the party in general, therefore I also assumed that the party leader would have a box on there even if they didn't have a local party candidate on there, what with it being a general election. Basically I got the idea that in general elections it was the leader you voted for, and the actual party was elected to that county if the leader got the most votes in said county, not the local candidates as a whole
     
  17. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Neil, what you are complaining about is the First Past the Post electoral system. I think you're justified in complaining about this system precisely because of the issue you've encountered, but it's nothing new.

    The problem is that strictly speaking, you don't actually vote for a party in a general election. Of course the reality is that everyone votes by party and that's how the whole thing works, but technically you are only voting for an MP to represent your constituency. So in order for you to be able to "vote UKIP", you would need to vote for a local candidate who is from UKIP. For some reason, UKIP was unable or unwilling to field a candidate in your constituency in this election. You weren't able to vote for a UKIP candidate in your constituency because UKIP couldn't or wouldn't provide one.

    It's not a specific conspiracy against UKIP, it's a bias against alternative parties in general. No matter how much of the overall national vote they get, parties don't get seats unless their votes concentrate in the right geographic clusters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  18. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I only assumed this applied at general election times, not the yearlylocal elections
     
  19. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Yes j think your right, but like I said, at general elections I thought it was different, and it went off leader votes rather than county votes, what with the two names. In two different t sections. Either way my original upset still applies. General electionss should be just down to a simple vote for who you want to be leader of the country, and local elections for constituencies. That way your party has fair chance, not being down to whether you happen to have a local mp standing for your party
     
  20. neilold

    neilold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I get that local elections should decide who has local power and who should be based on who gets elected locally, it should be different for general elections though, so it's still bullsmeg. I thought that general elections were like this, and that who gets elected locally was simply down to which party has the most votes in said counties. Bare in mind I mean just at general election times. I do know that said local candidates could be voted in or out at local yearly elections
     

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