Was using JFK a misstep?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by mullauna, May 31, 2013.

  1. mullauna

    mullauna Third Technician

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    JFK is usually shown in fiction in order to be assassinated, so what does Red Dwarf do?

    ... show him in order to be assassinated!

    (and make some tasteless jokes about his sex addiction. Addictions are never funny.)
     
  2. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

    Messages:
    11,946
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Sex addiction is a joke, by adulterers incapable of remaining faithful. Using JFK was NOT a misstep. The lack of humour & the fact that now Starbug is massive, the time drive can move through space as well as time, the fact that the crew meeting their selves causes a temporal paradox whereas JFK meeting himself doesn't, & the fact that now they could obviously just travel to earth in their time but don't WAS a misstep! :x
     
  3. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

    Messages:
    596
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Tikka to Ride is a strong episode in my opinion, and I love the whole JFK thing. It's just a shame the rest of Series VII was not up to scratch.
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

    Messages:
    12,708
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2001
    I was never fond of Red Dwarf doing a JFK episode. The assassination had already appeared way too much in fiction and documentaries by the time series 7 came along, and Red Dwarf tackling the same subject seemed a bit desperate.

    I love series 7 for the most part now, but couldn't stand it at the time, and Tikka To Ride was a major indication that things were changing for the worst.
     
  5. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,784
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Location:
    JMC HQ
    I think Tikka is, by a comfortable margin, the best ep of VII and VIII.
     
  6. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    8,084
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Location:
    Wherever the catnip is
    I thought it was a good episode.
     
  7. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    8,313
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Location:
    The Land of Freebornia
    I pretty much love everything about Tikka To Ride. A very strong ep in my opinion.
     
  8. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

    Messages:
    11,946
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Even the aforementioned plot inconsistencies? :roll:
     
  9. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    8,313
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Location:
    The Land of Freebornia
    If I allowed all Red Dwarf plot inconsistencies to dampen my enjoyment of the show I probably wouldn't bother watching it.

    Although having said that some of the continuity issues used to bother me during my younger years. Not so much any more though. Backwards for example is brimming over with logical fallacies and continuity errors, but it doesn't stop it being an enjoyable episode for me. In fact I've always loved that one.
     
  10. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    8,313
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Location:
    The Land of Freebornia
    I suppose it depends on how the jokes are taken by the individual. Addictions are not so funny in the real world, but if the gags are harnessed well in a sitcom it can work well as a topic of humour, I suppose.

    I found Craig's priory line especially funny in BTE. Although there's a slight difference there of course, as he's taking the smeg out of his own situation. I'd imagine that if he were offended by the line Doug would've dropped it, but Craig obviously has a sense of humour about such things.

    I remember making a joke about heroin or crack [can't remember which] in chat some time ago. Others had had a drink and I was sober, so I wrote. "I haven't had a drink tonight". Followed up by "I'm just on the old heroin instead".

    Now, in reality I've never taking such a drug (and never would, obviously), but given the company at the time and the general laid back atmosphere I knew it wouldn't be taken seriously. But in other cases, to a wider "audience" some offence may have been taken, so I wouldn't make such a gag here on the forum itself...um, although I kinda' just did. ;-)

    But yeah, addictions are not funny in the real world sense. And I agree many things can become addictions, everything from alcohol to shopping. Or they can just be excessive...hobbies, depending on various individual factors.

    I guess it can be a fine line to tread in sitcoms too in the opinion of some. For example some have said on here that they took offence to the addiction element to the Able character in 'Beyond a joke', whereas I didn't personal feel any lines were crossed there.
     
  11. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

    Messages:
    12,708
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2001
    That's an odd criticism for a Red Dwarf episode. The show's always been full of plot inconsistencies, so why have you singled out Tikka To Ride?

    Some people even made a huge list of them.
     
  12. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

    Messages:
    11,946
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Because Out of Time set up some clear rules about what the time drive can do & then this is simply ignored in the next episode! Extremely lazy writing, as well as the disregard for the temporal paradox rule that is used to explain surviving the events of Out of Time! It feels like a 'that'll do' attitude from Doug. :x
     
  13. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,970
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    I thought this episode was great, funny and a touch of genius
     
  14. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,916
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    I do wish they'd given an explanation as to difference in operation of the Time drive (although I can think of a couple myself) but I liked the episode a lot.

    Major spoilers for ending of Tikka to Ride ahead:



    As for the apparent contradiction that the Dwarfers killing their past selves caused a paradox, while JFK doing the same thing didn't*, well, we don't actually KNOW that it didn't.

    To explain what I mean, from what I understand of the confusing 'story so far' explanation of what happened, the Dwarfers' own paradox caused the Dwarfers to return back to the time-line before they were killed, but not strictly speaking their own timeline, but a new universe incorporating elements from the conflicting realities. (Hence they're alive, but they remember the future events and Starbug has sustained some damage yet is far from destroyed, despite the events causing the damage are in the future, a future that might never happen in their own timeline.)

    Now how do we know that the same thing didn't happen to JFK after he shot himself? We saw him vanish after killing his past self- the general assumption being that he cancelled himself out since he no longer existed. Except he did to do it, etc, hence the paradox...

    Well, if a new universe had been generated to deal with that paradox, who would know except him if we follow what happened to the other Dwarfers. He could have just returned back to shortly before he was shot, in the car. Then realising what would happen (if he had memory of the old timeline like the Dwarfers did) he stays right there to await his fate. And the Dwarfers could still be there in there period costumes in that new timeline which incorporated them.

    Besides we don't know that the universe always resolves these paradoxes the same way.

    I'm not sure I quite buy that either. That mystery is something I find interesting rather than repellent about the episode though. But really, I'm over-thinking it, and there are other episodes with time-travel shenanigans with stuff that doesn't quite tie up. And 'spawned alternate universes incorporating elements of contradicting timelines' would actually resolve those too. Holly and Rimmer both remember Lister and Kryten, for example, in a time line when they'd never joined the crew. (Timeslides.)

    *And it was the killing not the meeting where the paradox lied.
     
  15. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Although I do quite enjoy some other episode from those two series', I'd definitely agree with that.

    I also agree with Freeborn Leveller, that if I had to allow plot inconsistencies to get in the way of my enjoyment of the show, I'd never watch it.
     
  16. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

    Messages:
    596
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Out of Time ignored it's own rules about what the Time Drive could do; the future Dwarfers could easily travel space as well as time. I don't see it as a huge stretch to suggest that come Tikka to Ride the Dwarfers could now travel back to Earth. Certainly not such a big inconsistency that I cannot enjoy an episode for what it is, an enjoyable, funny and clever time travel romp :-)
     
  17. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

    Messages:
    11,946
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Really? So why didn't they just go back to Earth in their own time then. . .:roll:

    PS - it wasn't "a surprising omission" it was lazy writing. . .:x
     
  18. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

    Messages:
    596
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Probably for the same reasons they didn't stay on Earth in their own time in Stasis Leak. Even though Lister didn't get Kochanski, what's to stop him from staying in that time period and returning home?

    I think by the time Tikka to Ride came about, the Dwarfers were so settled in their life on board Red Dwarf, and been marooned from the rest of the human race for so long, that Red Dwarf now is their home and where they're more comfortable.
     
  19. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,916
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Of course it could be argued that when they changed the future in Tikka... they should have vanished. I.e. according to that future, the Americans no longer won the space-race so Red Dwarf never even existed. One of the reasons they try to set the timeline back on track is so they have a Red Dwarf to return to, but, well, how come they're there to do that in the first place? ;-)

    Then again if they wasn't the changes in the timeline would never have taken place.

    Fun, innit?
     
  20. Sammy Psycho

    Sammy Psycho Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,378
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle UK
    I stand by that, Tikka is streets ahead of any of the other ep's from both VII and VIII.
     

Share This Page