Was using JFK a misstep?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by mullauna, May 31, 2013.

  1. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    That's not saying much really. . .:roll:
     
  2. quichechance

    quichechance Third Technician

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    Personally this is my least favorite episode, for several reasons.
    Out of curiosity, I wonder if Americans react differently to this episode than non-American fans? For myself I certainly felt a certain amount of wounded American pride with how they treated JFK, particularly because it was played straight. If his character had been zanified, I would have been cool with it. :-)
    That said, I don't think the treatment of JFK was my main issue with the episode; I just felt that the pacing and comic timing were off. Then again, for some reason this episode (along with half of Series 7) does not have the laughtrack on Netflix, and I find that throws off the timing because there are clearly pauses for laughter - but no laughter.
     
  3. Hesperus

    Hesperus Third Technician

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    I like Tikka and agree that it's the strongest VII/VIII episode, which is unusual for me because I don't usually like episodes that take place largely off-ship.

    I do have to agree with Sim that I find the plot inconsistecy surround JFK a little irritating though.
     
  4. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    I'm with you GQAC (do you mind if I just call you Quiche?). I REALLY dislike Tikka to Ride and even with some of the awful episodes in series VIII, I still might peg this one as my personal least-favorite.

    I'm an American, but I don't think I suffer from the same feeling of wounded-pride at the treatment of JFK. I did think that the whole "JFK was the shooter on the grassy knoll!" thing which pandered to all the conspiracy theorists was just silly and a bit below the usual cleverness I'd expected from Red Dwarf.

    The transition from series VI was another big factor in why I think it stands out as being so bad to me. I watched the whole show in one go so I went from Out of Time directly to Tikka to Ride and the changes were very jarring. I also found Craig Charles performance as Lister to be a bit weird in this episode compared to earlier ones. Almost like he hadn't yet gotten back into the swing of playing the character. It's hard to put my finger on exactly why I dislike it so much, but something just feels "off" about the whole episode.

    For me, Stoke me a Clipper and Blue are the clear standouts of series VII.
     
  5. quichechance

    quichechance Third Technician

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    Sure, feel free to call me Quiche. Hurray! I'm a member on this forum for less than 24 hours and I already have a nickname!

    YES to everything else you said about this episode! I found the grassy-knoll "twist" quite cliche too, but maybe that's because it's more present in American culture. I too watched Tikka to Ride straight after Out of Time - damn you, Netflix's tendency to automatically play episodes consecutively and your nefarious effects on my productivity! - and was very thrown off by the change of pace.

    I also thought that Lister's characterization in this episode was strange. I didn't find his willingness to place the crew at risk for the sake of vindaloo to be either humorous or in character, particularly because he did not show attempts to fight his urge or any real remorse. I could see Rimmer playing around with time travel for some petty reason, but not really Lister.
     
  6. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Thank you for this comment. I completely agree.

    And because Lister had become so childlike it is left to Rimmer to utter lines like, `Kennedy was a fine man` which are completely out of character for him.

    I`m not American so I don`t have any real attachment to JFK. I just feel that he seems somewhat crowbarred into Red Dwarf. Doug had to mess with both Lister`s character and with how the Time Drive worked in order to fit him into the show.

    I watched this show when it was first broadcast and my feelings towards it haven`t really changed too much. Terrible resolution to the Series VI cliffhanger, so-so episode from then on and an absolutely abysmal original ending.
     
  7. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    As an American, I can say I personally enjoyed the episode, even with most of the flaws pointed out. The size of Starbug does bother me more than most inconsistencies, but I find the whole conspiracy theory intriguing, and enjoy stories that give wacky explanations for what happened (The new X-men film does something similar).

    One question did come up, however, while researching the show: Why was JFK sent to prison for having an affair with a mobster's mistress? As far as I know, adultery isn't an imprisonable crime, even for a President. I can see him being impeached, but sent to prison?
     
  8. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    Yes, you've hit the nail on the head there. I think Lister's character grew a bit tougher and bit more of a bad-ass as the show progressed, especially compared to how simple, lazy and a bit dim he was in series I. Lister seemed to go a bit backwards in this episode.
     
  9. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    My major problem with Tikka was that I enjoyed it too much. And after watching it I was expecting an amazing series all the way through. But, with the exception of Duct Soup I wasn't that keen on any of the episodes after Tikka and ended up being rather disappointed.

    So, yes Tikka had its problems with plot holes and such like, but I found it one of the laugh out loud episodes that I keep going back to...

    "Chicken's good!"
    "That's not chicken sir..."
     
  10. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    So am I to understand that you actually liked Duct Soup? You, Sir/Madame, are DEAD to me! ;-)
     
  11. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    I see how you see the JFK thing as being a bit cliché in American culture but I see you mention you watched this on Netflix, so it must be quite recent that you have seen it. Please try and remember that this originally aired in the Uk 9 years ago in 2005.
    There was also a huge gap between this episode and the previous series ending. I see this as being a big problem with watching boxsets from a series which is so spread out in it's chronology.

    That being said my own opinion on this episode is... I like it and find if I want to watch an episode from series VII or VIII that is my go to episode so I must like it quite a bit. I don't really think it's very derogative towards JFK.

    Tikka does have a lot of plot problems but "Hey ho Pip and Dandy".
     
  12. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    Surely you meant 1997 right? Are you mixing the dates up with Back to Earth?

    I will agree that watching the show as we have on Netflix, one after another with no breaks in-between probably colors our opinion of the episode in a way that people who watched it in it's original run probably couldn't see. However I think it's still valid that when placed flat against the end of series VI, it comes across as being a bit off.
     
  13. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    I do like Duct Soup. Only for a few reasons, but here they are...

    1 - The title (being a Marx Bros fan I liked the connection!)
    2 - The insular nature of the episode where it's just on the ship and the guys are chatting.
    3 - Cat and Listers jokes.

    Nope, it ain't great, but it's fun
     
  14. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    :eek:ops: :eek:ops: Yeah, 1997 I got my dates mixed up. I am one of the few around who actually got to see series one when it was first aired on TV many moons ago,that makes me old and prone to losing track of dates :? sorry.

    I do agree that it doesn't compare to what went before it. There has been many discussions about the differences of S1-6 and S7-8 and a lot of people dislike S7-8 including myself, If I was asked I would have to say that the only saving episodes from those latter two series are 'Tikka S7' and 'Cassandra S8' although S7 has grown on me over the years.

    And of course RDX has returned to mostly great form, I really want RDXI to happen soon :-)
     
  15. quichechance

    quichechance Third Technician

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    I hear your point, but the idea was pretty cliche way before then, at least in the U.S. ;-)
    I absolutely agree that my experience of the ep is colored by the fact that I watched it immediately after Out of Time. I imagine that if I had been just waiting 2 years for a new episode, I'd probably be too excited that it was back to care about cliches. Kind of like how I was walking around smiling like an idiot for the first 24 hours after watching the first episode of Series 3 of Sherlock, I was so excited. :-)
     
  16. Fairfax

    Fairfax Catering Officer

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    Maybe but I think it`s fair to say that Tikka to Ride and Series VII didn`t get a unanimous good response from the fans at the time by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  17. Stadhart

    Stadhart Third Technician

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    Loved the episode personally regardless of the inconsistencies.

    The bit where they are eating the dead person never fails to make me laugh
     
  18. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    Another Marx Bros fan! Yay!

    I don't mind Duct Soup all that much either, some of my reasons for liking it are a bit shallow though. :shock:
     
  19. Rageofangels

    Rageofangels First Technician

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    Yep, love the Marx Bros. Animals Crackers and Duck Soup being my favourite, but all of them are pretty good (with the exception of Love Happy)
     
  20. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    I've still yet to see Love Happy. Someone got it for me on DVD ages ago, but I've never popped it in. I think I'm afraid of how bad it will be!

    A Night at the Opera is my favorite, but they've all got their moments. :-)
     

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