What the smeg is Lister's accent?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by CrazyFanNumber8725, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. geekrock82

    geekrock82 Second Technician

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    Well, no, but if you want to know how to spell a word, you look it up in a dictionary. People take dictionaries as supreme authority, often without considering that word spellings, inclusions and meanings are still subjective choices made by the people who compile them. Dictionaries *should* be a descriptive tool, but are all-too-often taken as ultimately prescriptive.

    Hence, Webster had a certain amount of authority over the way people spelled things. Hence, the fact that he made subjective decisions about words gave him an incredible amount of personal influence over the development of American English.

    There's reams and reams I could write about prescriptivism vs descriptivism (it was one of my preferred topics on the history, use and theory section of my degree), but it's Sunday and I'm hungover ;-)
     
  2. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Does he really not like sci-fi? I know he used to be really into 2000 AD, a sci-fi comic. He even took influences from it in one (possibly more) of the episodes.

    I find his plotting a lot to be desired but I'm not sure that has anything to do with a dislike of sci-fi. (Unless you're basing all this on things he has said himself, in which case, never mind.)
     
  3. CrazyFanNumber8725

    CrazyFanNumber8725 First Technician

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    dictionaries... phah! i'm not gonna let some stuck-up little book tell me I'm wrong! who you gonna save in a fire... a female who think that Canada is the USA's largest state, or a book that calls Canada a country but has nothing else going for it? Phah! dictionaries. who needs 'em.
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    When you stated that Canada is America's largest state I assumed it was a non-serious, humourous statement.
     
  5. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    But the spellings that have persisted were not just championed by Noah Webster. There was a wealth of support to make English spelling closer to how it was pronounced. To make it "neater"

    But people being people tend to spell it how they think it should be spelled anyway. That's why even though Thru is considered an Americanism and used in advertisements I didn't learn to spell it like that in school nor have I ever used that spelling in everyday writing. I spell through "correctly". (I will add that my American Language spell checker doesn't recognize it either.

    Basically by saying it was Noah Webster because he created the most popular dictionary is overlooking a wealth of influence and evolution that took place in America to shape it's language and spelling.
     
  6. garfie

    garfie Catering Officer

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    Um is it the Oxford dictionary or the collins dictionary?
     
  7. magnusgreel

    magnusgreel First Technician

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    I've seen that magazine 2000 AD, but don't know any more about it. Oh, RTD may like all sorts of "sci-fi", in other words light diverting space adventure, but as far as actual science-fiction goes, where the SF premise underlying the story matters and makes some sense, where the SF concept is what the rest of the story grows out of, I doubt it.

    RTD has stated that he thinks that Doctor Who never really was science-fiction, because it's about a man travelling around in a box that's bigger on the inside than the outside. It sounds as if he means that this makes it fantasy, because it's impossible, and SF is supposed to be about what's scientifically possible. That's hardly one of the most far-fetched possibilities ever put forward in SF, though. It sounds to me as if he hasn't read much.

    Classic DW would stray from SF but not very far. Even if an SF premise wasn't at the heart of the story, along the way there were plenty of interesting SF ideas used. New Who includes magic-- things that could not possibly happen, children's show elements that belong in something like Harry Potter, as in "The Wire", where an entity sucks faces off of bodies, taking the person's "essence" (your essence is your face?) and the bodies just sit there, alive, breathing through God knows what orifice. Just one example.

    Don't get me started on all the aliens who look like Earth animals. My friend's daughter loves that, but then again she's a child.
     
  8. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    And you know it's not like the show is a CHILDREN'S SHOW or anything....
     
  9. geekrock82

    geekrock82 Second Technician

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    So, in other words, despite admitting that you know nothing about the publication, you're happy to make assumptions about its content? Riiiight. I don't think you're leaving yourself with a leg to stand on, frankly, because every one of your points are based on suppositions about the character and interests of someone whom you *don't know*.
     
  10. magnusgreel

    magnusgreel First Technician

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    What?! I don't get into these kinds of arguments because life is short and my blood pressure pills can only do so much. I'll just say, simply, no, I just mentioned in passing that I know nothing about that magazine, then moved on to other things. As for the rest, I based what I said on what RTD actually said about DW not being SF because of the inside-bigger-than-outside business, and the content of the actual episodes. The example I gave was "The Wire". I judge RTD by his work.

    Some people like arguing. I'm not one of them. Therefore this is settled.

    As for the earlier comment about DW being a kids' show, DW did a very subversive thing in the '70s. They took what had been a children's show and made it adult, without consulting the BBC. If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't consider it worth talking about, and it wouldn't have developed an adult fandom.
     
  11. geekrock82

    geekrock82 Second Technician

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    But you said : "RTD isn't into sci-fi"
    Someone else : "I'm pretty sure he's talked about being into 2000AD"
    You : "I don't know anything about that magazine, but no, I don't think RTD's into proper sci-fi"

    The pretty clear implication from that is that you don't consider 2000AD to be proper sci-fi - which might be an acceptable claim to make if you'd ever, y'know, read it (although even then I'd disagree).

    But, whatever. While I don't particularly like being told a debate is "settled" when you haven't actually conclusively proven your point (it'd be "settled" if one of us agreed with the other), there's no need to push it. I just think you're wrong, you just think I'm wrong. Fine ;-)
     
  12. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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  13. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I tend to see it as an all round family show really, for any age. The spin-off Sarah Jane show I'd certainly class as a kids show (although I liked some of that too, but mainly for the stories rather than the tone, which makes me wince.)
     
  14. aceduder

    aceduder Catering Officer

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    Oooh havent read any 2000ad for years now, I used to love it! Still have quite a few of the collected Judge Dredd mega-epics lying around (the Cursed Earth, Block Mania/Atomic War, Necropolis and Judgment day to name a few!) Also got the absolutely fantastic Judgment on Gotham, Dredd, Batman, Mean Angel, Scarecrow and Judge Death all in one story! Brilliant story and some fantastic artwork!
     
  15. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I just started getting 2000 AD last year, so I'm relatively new to it myself. A mixed bag, being an anthology comic, but overall pretty good. Nice to dip into once a week. So far I've only bought one of the collections (The Ballad of Halo Jones*) although I've read a few from the library.

    *A great read by Alan Moore. Corwyn might like that one considering our conversation concerning female characters on another thread.
     
  16. magnusgreel

    magnusgreel First Technician

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    You know my mind far better than I possibly could. Please go play Monty Python Argument Clinic with someone else.
     
  17. Beth1983

    Beth1983 Second Technician

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    It is a family show, but RTD did state that it was aimed more at the kids then at the adults. The family might all enjoy it, but it's principally for the kids. Which is fine! That's as it should be. I enjoy the show as an adult, but a lot of the things that niggle me about the show I know I would have adored when I was 10. So I'm not bothered, I think the Dr. Who fans who get angry because it has those elements have kinda missed the point.
     
  18. aceduder

    aceduder Catering Officer

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    Behind you!!! Ha Ha made you look!
     
  19. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Fair enough. It might read better as a collection though.

    I've never read Mean Team or Bad Company (before my time) but I agree on Johnny Alpha and Dredd. There's a good Strontium Dog Story Blood Moon in the Prog at the moment. (It finishes next week.)

    I've never read that story (would like to though) but I've seen that picture.
     
  20. Ronstar

    Ronstar Third Technician

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    I literally punched the air when I heard that Stephen Moffat was the new head-writer for Doctor Who. He absolutely loves the show, and has written some of the best of the 'new' Doctor Who (in my opinion, obviously) - "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances", "The Girl In The Fireplace", "Blink" (A model episode that I use to introduce new people to show with!), "Time Crash" (the Children In Need short), "Silence In The Library"/"Forest Of The Dead". I love his episodes, even the Comic Relief special from 1999, "The Curse Of Fatal Death" is brilliantly written. I find it amusing that in the interview he gave a the time that that was made he said he'd love a chance to write 'real' Doctor Who if it ever came back - and now he's the head writer!

    Ronnie
     

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