What's wrong with Series VII and VIII?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Cepillo, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. GulDukat

    GulDukat Third Technician

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    Am about halfway done with 8. I agree with those say that the humor is too broad...lacks the wit of 1-6. I will say, however, that "Casandra" was pretty great and ranks among one of my favorites.

    Love the ending.
     
  2. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    cassandra was one of the better episodes of series VIII, but i felt it still had its lazy flaws :-(
     
  3. GulDukat

    GulDukat Third Technician

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    Another flaw of 8 is that Holister is like "oh so we died, 3 million years ago, they're telling the truth. Now let's send them to prison for three years and pretend that everything is fine." It's like the knowledge that the crew died, and that they are not really who they think they are, that the human race is all but extinct, doesn't phase them.
     
  4. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    what about the fact that the captain spent more time dealing with 2 prisoners then dealing with other problems aboard the ship
     
  5. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    We don't know that. We see him primarily when Lister/Rimmer are brought before him, and we aren't really told how long elapses over the whole thing (to the best of my senile memory), so for all we know he spends an awful lot of time dealing with the other problems. At the end of the day Captain Hollister is not one of the central characters around whom the stories revolve, rather an important recurring character in the entire roster (much like Ackerman and Kill Crazy and the like, only higher up in the pecking order of importance both aboard the ship and in terms of significance for the overall series).
     
  6. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    Dr No, From Russia With Love and Thunderball all played pretty close to the original material from Fleming as well, whereas You Only Live Twice also branched off pretty heavily from the book, so by that logic OHMSS is more like the ones before it's immediate predecessor and from that angle at least can't be said to veer off too much, but rather be a return to that vein. From Diamonds are Forever the overall feel of the book was far more vague and greater creative licence was taken through the Moore years, who did seem to play the part of Bond more as himself (like Connery) compared to Lazenby's more "Fleming" Bond. If only Lazenby hadn't been so crap and had done Fleming's Bond a bit of justice really.

    Also, Wint and Kidd as they are in the books wouldn't have been out of place in a "goof-ball spy-thriller" either.
     
  7. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    well in realism terms the captain probably wouldnt be dealing with prisoners

    I always thought it should of been ackermans role
     
  8. Daniel

    Daniel Console Officer

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    General problems would be, but serious offences would be referred to the highest authority, in this case the Captain. Plus I would guesstimate that after all that's happened he'll be extra suspicious of the old Dwarfers so probably ordered Ackerman to report anything to him, and thus would find himself dealing with the boys a bit more frequently.
     
  9. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I really enjoy series 7 and 8 but im easy going.
     
  10. GulDukat

    GulDukat Third Technician

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    Been re-watching VII for the first time since 1997 and it's far better than I remember. I even like Kochanski now. Watching the documentary, I appreciate it now. Stylistically, it was so far removed from 1-6, I just didn't like it all that much at first, but now, I think it's actually quite strong. It's gotten better over time.
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I'm still awfully pleased whenever I hear about someone doing this.
     
  12. JEZZMUND

    JEZZMUND First Technician

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    Yes... You Sir, deserve a biscuit.
     
  13. J_Steeder

    J_Steeder Third Technician

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    I actually like most of series 7 except Duct Soup which has to be for me the next to the worst episode they ever made. Only the series 8 episode Krytie TV is the worst one of all time.

    Over all series 8 misses the mark for me. They had a chance to give the series a good re-boot. But when they are sent to the Brig, the only thing I think of that Capt. 'is you ungrateful bastard'. After all they brought everyone back from the dead and they send them to prison anyway. I wish I could post the rest of what I am thinking, but I don't want to get banned for using bad language. The truth is I watch the bonus features more on the series 8 DVD more than the episodes. After that opening all the episodes seem sub par. Why couldn't they get in to the one question which I know is on everyone's one mind what happened to the people. Did the human race really did die out, or is what I read about that proposed movie is more the truth. That the Stimulants killed off the human race. One of these days I hope they have an answer. But you won't find that in series 8.
     
  14. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I choose to be flattered. :-)

    Or series one to seven. Not sure it was eight's job to answer that, particularly.

    The movie script, though, took place in an entirely different universe to the TV series. Anything in the film wouldn't necessarily apply to the show's history.
     
  15. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    I figured the general consensus was that the Human race had died out long ago, as that would keep with Red Dwarf's fairly downbeat nature and makes Lister all that important. He's the final spokesman and representative of an occasionally great race.
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    That's been a given in the TV and boom universes, yeah. The exact nature of the die-out is open to a big reveal if desired, but the logic has always been that no well-evolved species goes on for three million years. Humanity's survival is unlikely enough to be basically impossible.

    As that released bit of blurb revealed, the film script attached a more specific fate to humanity, a brilliant move that, like Marvel's Ultimate universe, tied disparate bits of Dwarf mythology (Lister's time in stasis, the death of humanity, the arrival of villains) together into a single, streamlined narrative.
     
  17. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    damn film industry, what a loss :-(
     
  18. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    D'ya think?:?
     
  19. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    Series 7 - Not much wrong here. If anything, it was a little lighter on the humor than the others but that works out well in some situations. Still, it has some of the best stories and funniest moments of the show's run, bested only by series 5. Case in point: Stoke Me a Clipper's pre-title sequence, Holly's return in Nanarchy ("What's the word.... face, I suppose...."), the "Rimmer Experience," etc. Not to mention production values that are simply unmatched. I wish the rest of the series looked this good. Actually, Back to Earth is up there too. Also, I think the addition of Kochanski as a regular cast member was a good move.

    Series 8 - A big letdown after 7. I liked it a lot when it first came out, but it hasn't aged well against the rest. 8 probably has the most failed attempts at humor out of all of them. Lots of really dumb moments. Bringing the crew back was a big mistake. Hollister was so funny in the early series, here he seems like a cheesy buffoon. Kill Crazy was funny the first time you watched the episodes, but is just annoying on repeat viewings. The stories are long and drawn out with superfluous filler. Case in point: the Cat's Blue Midget tap dance sequence, "You Are the Sunshine of My Life," the "Dibbley Family," the "screen saver" nonsense, much of the Hollister office visits in Pete, the Cat heartbeat sequence, etc. Kryten is reduced to a blubbering baby for a lot of series 8 as well, awful. The good stuff: "Cassandra" and "Only the Good..." are clearly the standouts here and are both actually really good episodes. I don't think it's any coincidence these are two of only three half-hour stories in the series. "Krytie TV" was just a dumb concept all-around. Holly's presence is a big plus, I missed him in series 6 and the majority of 7 where he was absent.
     
  20. Supervenom1

    Supervenom1 Skutter

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    I think (this being only my opinion) that the reason Vii and Viii weren't as well received was it was to drastic a change of format.
    Red dwarf was a (excuse being sexist) a guys humor of beer curry etc. that appealed to us the viewer (target audience of teen and 20 to early 30's males).
    The struggle single guys have just getting through life one day at a time, it was generally normal people doing mundane things in extraordinary situations. It also relied on the fact that most of the crew weren't nice people, (funny yes), but the general idea was you wouldn't want them as your room mate. Placing such varied mind sets in a confined space is comedy gold alone.
    Vii and Viii removed most of this, they were no longer alone therefore got engulfed with other characters, hollister as a captain meaning order was now in the place of anarchy, i think the authority figure now reduced to the shenanigans to naughty school boy grade) and the confined space was removed, (yes they went out of the ship but it was always just them).
    Although katchansky was hot (i so cant spell)her involvement (other than listers love interest in earlier episodes)was a bit fanservice. Before it was like a club for boys only, but with her introduction in Vii it was like the annoying (hot) girl that always wanted to join then change everything(Im promise im not sexist). Not against hot women, just that when a show strength is the uselessness of men alone, a female makes it a different show, changing circumstance an consequence. It might have worked if the show always had that direction. After all we were fans for a reason, why change, to me they should have just left it at 6 maybe a finisher and place it PROUDLY on the shelf to admire. (thats just some iof my deas, i never said i was right :P)
     

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