When did "classic" Dwarf end?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by mophead241, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    When did "classic" Dwarf end? Did it end after series two, when there were a lot of big changes? Or did it end after series five, when, in my opinion, things started to get worse? Did it end after series 6, when Rob left and Doug was writing by himself? Or does anyone think Dwarf was "classic" during series 7 & 8?

    My opinion is it ended after either the fifth or sixth series, depending on how I feel about series 6, at the moment I think the sixth series was the last "classic" one.
     
  2. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    In what way did things start to get worse after series 5? Series 6 was almost perfect.

    The classic era certainly ended after series 6. After that there was a very noticeable drop in the standard of the humour, storylines, characterisation and acting.
     
  3. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    I just wasn't as into it, it was still very good but in my opinion it wasn't quite to the same level as the previous series.
     
  4. ChangeOfPlan

    ChangeOfPlan Third Technician

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    While It's all personal preference I can't agree with you on that one mate.

    I mean look at Gunmen!? It was superb. It won awards as I remember, and to say that doesn't measure up to series 5 cant be right?

    Anyway all you have to do to gain perspective is to pick your least favourite episode from series 1-6, then tell me ONE episode that's even in the same league from series 7 or 8. Visual proof that it's always best to quit when your winning.
     
  5. thecogre

    thecogre First Technician

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    i'm of the opinion that red dwarf has eras ya know like series 1 and 2 was the first era then 3-5 was its own era and 6-8 is another era. and when the plot line doesn't add up i say it's in another dimension and that solves all those nagging holes for me.
     
  6. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    Gunmen I agree was good, but then so were Tikka, Stoke and Cassandra, that doesn't mean 7 & 8 were classic. By the way the three I've just mentioned are better than a few from the first 6 series in my opinion.
     
  7. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Gunmen wasn't just good; it redefined the parameters of what a Red Dwarf episode was capable of and is a strong contender for the title of Greatest Red Dwarf Episode. Same with Out of Time, which features the most epic and enthralling final scene of any Red Dwarf episode. The only relatively mediocre episodes of 6 are Rimmerworld and Emohawk, largely because of their lack of originality. But I still much prefer those two over any of the series 7 and 8 episodes you mentioned.
     
  8. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    I suppose, it's a matter of opinion.
     
  9. thecogre

    thecogre First Technician

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    wow so you all were underwhelmed with my take on it huh *shrugs shoulders and kicks a rock*
     
  10. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    I'm with this...
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Okay. Tikka to Ride was probably as good as Parallel Universe, Confidence and Paranoia or Balance of Power....probably comparable to Rimmerworld too.

    Let the controversy commence...:twisted:
     
  12. thecogre

    thecogre First Technician

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    thank you , most of this nit picky buisness just bores me , its a show enjoy the smartly done comedy.

    *gets off soapbox*
     
  13. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    I agree with this too, I'm just saying that more than one era was classic.
     
  14. mophead241

    mophead241 Catering Officer

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    Parallel Universe, Confidence and Paranoia and Balance of Power are three of my faves. Love Tikka to Ride too though, would agree that it is better than Rimmerworld.
     
  15. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Sounds fair enough to me :-). Those were definately the defining moments of change in terms of direction. Although it seems to be a popular passtime within harcore fandom to slag off the latter two series to a rather large extent for some reason.


    It's certainly nice to see such varying opinions on the series' on this thread. Since joining this forum i can honestly say i've been slightly baffled at some of the extreme and (in my oppinion) very exaggerated neggetive views about series 7 and 8 (possibly even more so on g&t it would seem for some reason).

    I've actually met quite a few people who feel series 7 and 8 were two of the best series (yes seriously), and were shocked when i told them some of the hardcore massive disliked them so much. For me both series have a lot going for them, each era for me has always certainly had it's own feel.

    As far as my personal taste goes, outside of series 2 and 3 (which are near perfect in my eyes) i could mention just as many pros and cons about each series (although the lack of Rimmer in 7 was a major disopointment at the time of broadcast, but after getting over my emotional fan based attachments i've actually grown to love series 7)

    There is a noticable difference in the later series', but in no way would i link said differences to a drop in quality (well, okay other than a few very minor nit picky elements eg; the Dibbly family scene in an otherwise 'classic' episode - the Xtended version), but rather a slight change in direction, which was always destined to annoy some of the lifelong fans (which thankfully doesn't seem to overly concern Doug too much, we hardcore fans are the minority after all). But show a new viewer series 7 and 8 first, and i think in many cases you'll find that we see the same kind of attitude (in reverse) emerge.

    I'm interested to hear how a friend of mine reacts to the later series too when she gets to them (her favourite episode so far is 'Kryten' interestingly. She's just about to start series 3. I wonder what she'll make of the 'new' Kryten?.

    Series 5 and 6 are both highly enjoyable for me, but again, there was certainly a slight shift in direction from series 6 onwards, i can see why some love series 6 so much through, yet others are not quite as enthusiastic about it. But then there are some who are not so keen on series 1 and 2, and that doesn't make them wrong just because it doesn't match my personal view, so much of this comes down to personal preference.

    For me series 2 and 3 are without doubt my favourites. Which is why i'm so excited about series X, As it felt to me very much in the same vain as what i would concider classic Dwarf, with a little hint of series 5 thrown in for good measure perhaps :-)...along with some 'classic' elements from series 7 too....haha that's got you all worried hasn't it? :-) ...i am actually being serious through.

    I was a little disapointed with some of series 4 at the time and still feel it's one of the weeker series (controversial?), although i have grown to love it over the years.

    If i was forced to name one major personal complaint about RD over all it would be what is in my opinion a massive over use of Kryten (at times), which for me started with series 4. Don't get me wrong i love the character, but it just seems like Krytie overload to me sometimes...wow, i'm getting harsh now :shock: (by my standards at least) ;-) But again, that doesn't make me right about that, this isn't a scientific process of elimination, for the most part it's based purely on personal preference, many may feel Kryten is the best character and should be used even more than he is currently. But for me it has been a little overkill at times over the years.

    But yeah, over all i love all series of Red Dwarf, as they all bring something new to the table and have a slight different feel to them.

    And just to end on a slightly controversial (albeit a genuinely honest one) Kochanskie is an awesome character!, and brought a nice refreshing ballance to the show (in an arbitrary sense - for the time period) i loved her in both series 7 and 8..so,..there :P

    Although having said that, i'm glad the series is going in the direction it seems to be going now, so in that sense i was pleased when she wasn't anounced to be among the main cast for series X.
     
  16. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    On broadcast, I don't remember hating series VII. It wasn't the same when Rimmer left, but Red Dwarf without Rimmer was better than no Red Dwarf at all. Besides, it was only half the series.

    I did take an instant dislike to Series VIII. I remember saying to my work mate that I wasn't sure about the new scenario and it didn't feel right. He pointed out that the show needed to change and that they couldn't keep going on as they were indefinitely. After that, I wasn't bothered so much by the new scenarios and started to enjoy the show again.

    Both definitely my least favourite series, but I was never a hater...
     
  17. thecogre

    thecogre First Technician

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    i find the jokes that echo the older jokes in the show just too funny for words so the dibbly family was a gut buster for me.
     
  18. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Interesting. Hmm, i think for me, while i didn't mind the change in scenario so much, the one thing the initial episode got me all excited about was the potential 'classic' bunk scenes to come (or more specifically more Rimmer/Lister dialogue scenes) so that was addmittedly a slight disopointment for me personally upon realising this was not the case later in the series. But yeah your work mate made a very valid point. Change is good (okay, perhaps not always, but often), but can be difficult to accept initially.

    Just look at our socio-economic paradigm, based on that of which was a once natural competition based-environmentally influenced state of affairs (apes/primates fighting over a genuine scarcity of food and competion to find a female mate for example, male dominated socity based on physical strength as opposed to genuine strengh, intelligence and evolved logic) this was natural behavior at the time, due to the environmental factors, lack of knowledge, evolutionary period, etc (males are indeed generally stronger than females in the physical sense). It's no longer necessary now, nor does it make any kind of logical sense to keep moving in this direction, we are more evolved that apes or cavemen, or even from the time this anti-economy was created (a time when it did at least make some kind of sense given the knowledge and technology we had at the time), So we built a system based upon competition, thinking (at the time) that it's a natural and healthy way to organise ourselves and to managed the earths resources. We know there are better ways now, and all see how this capitalist/monetary-ist sytem is failing (failed- computer says 'systems failure' ;-) ) Yet, due to primitive traditions, beliefs, outdated systems of monetary control, the profit motive, emotional attachments, politics and evolutionary bagage) we still we cling onto a system created long before our knowledge and technology was updated, and will continue to cling onto it for many years to come, based upon pased assumptions and emotional attached beliefs that this is the still the best we can come up with....um, yeah, aaaanyway...back to the subject in hand...:-)

    I personally thought the scenario within series 8 worked pretty well and was a nice change, though i'm not sure i would've liked the series to continue in that direction for another series, i'd always kinda hoped we would eventually end up back in the origional scenario for the next series. And i would hope there will be some more bold changes of direction in the future too.

    It's certainly going to be very interesting to see how series X is taken by the fans, and how well it will stand the test of time too.

    thecorgre

    Well there we are, a perfect example of differing personal preferences :-). All of which which being equally as valid as another of course. Just because i'm not keen on that scene doesn't mean it's not funny, as it obviously is for some :-)

    Fact is, Doug (or indeed Rob Grant) will never please all of us all of the time...fussy bunch of smeggers that we are ;-)
     
  19. thecogre

    thecogre First Technician

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    hahaha too true
     
  20. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    IMHO:
    "Tikka to ride" is better than "meltdown" or "emohawk"
    "Stoke Me a Clipper" is better than "meltdown" or "emohawk"
    "Ouroboros" is better than "meltdown" or "emohawk"
    "Epideme" is better than "meltdown" or "emohawk"
    "Cassandra" is better than "meltdown" or "emohawk"

    I really don't like "meltdown"...or "emohawk"...
     

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