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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by jmc2000, Jul 9, 2017.
This must have come up before, when RDX was current, but I don't think it hurts to revisit it!
I really wish it was the original but I don't think it's very likely. The flipside is that at least he still gets a happy ending that way.
In my ideal version the original Rimmer couldn't handle being Ace and found a way to return to his own reality. Upon arrival he found Red Dwarf about to blow and another version of himself explaining the situation. He leaves the Series VIII version of himself to his doom so that he can meet up with the crew and be spared the indignity of having to admit that he was too much of a weasel to be Ace by taking the other Rimmer's place. He tells an epic tale when he finds them that rings false but in a show of friendship are happy to play along with the charade. Through the years Lister can reminisce about the old, heroic Rimmer, knowing full well what has happened but does it just to torture Rimmer through the decades.
I'm actually the opposite - I prefer original Rimmer to still be Ace. The farewell scene where he got his officer pips was just a lovely moment, and it seems a shame to undo it.
If current Rimmer is a new hologram, it's the best of both worlds for me. I get to keep the character development from Stoke Me A Clipper, but Rimmer is back - in somewhat "reset" form - and can have new nice moments like The Beginning.
I do understand that, and deep down know it's the best choice. It's a different case here but I hate in film and TV when a character dies and is replaced with a clone of some sort. My allegiance is always with the original character who I grew to love. Though the second Rimmer was still in keeping with the character beyond Series VIII.
I hope its the original Rimmer and there have been bits and pieces of evidence that it is. Kryten telling him the Karma Drive was based on the justice field tech, reminding him that him and him has worked out badly in the past, references to the senile version of Holly. The only time an event is mentioned that Nano-Rimmer woud remember was the Chameleonic Microbe and the reference there is how he saved the day, hence I think it's the original Rimmer who returned and saved the crew (well Lister, Cat, Kryten and Kochanski anyway).
I could handle Rimmer being original Rimmer if he extracted himself from the Ace gig with some dignity. If - as @Pembers suggests - he returned to save the day, complete with wig and bomber jacket, I suppose that could be his shining moment in the role. Then he'd retire on a high. It's not my preferred explanation, but I wouldn't mind it.
I'm relaxed if Rimmer remembers "golden age" adventures because he's a hologram. His memories are saved to disk and could be an amalgamation.
I note that original Rimmer should have viewed his dad's message (about Dungo) on getting his pips in Series VII. If it turns out to be original Rimmer, we'll have an Explain That on our hands!
In all likelihood the holo-lamp containing the message would still be on Red Dwarf so he wouldn't be able to hear it if he wanted to.
what about the third option where Rimmer turns out to be @Tex_Rimmer
I really don't see how nano-Rimmer being a part of the current Rimmer would add anything. Casual fans wouldn't care about the cliffhanger and those who wish to see the matter resolved are a minority of even the hardcore fans, most of whom couldn't care less if Series VIII is never mentioned again in any form. Really, what exactly would Rimmer retaining a memory of the events of Series VIII add to show? What would be lost from him not having experienced those few episodes? The show has wholly ignored them, going as far as to crack a joke about how it was never going to resolve that cliffhanger.
Rimmer is Rimmer and that's all that matters to me. He's the character we've grown with since Series I, and I only care about the specifics of whether or not the Series VIII Rimmer is apart of current Rimmer in as far as the show cares to explore the matter. If they make a neat fan-smegy episode about the subject in a future series, that could be cool. But we know this is for all intents and purposes the same Rimmer from Series I-VII. Ignoring Series VIII lets the show reverse all the huge mistakes it made without needing to worry about addressing them directly. It's the same way Series III ignored the Series II cliffhanger because Rob and Doug couldn't make the episode "Dad" work. Ignoring VIII got the four main characters back together on Red Dwarf, alone. That's the way the show should be, and I don't think they need to excuse moving back to the classic format with anything more than "Nine Years Later..."
Until the show contradicts it, I'm sticking with my headcanon that he's a new hologram generated that has all of original Rimmer's memories up until the moment he left in Stoke, and all the memories of VIII Rimmer, combined.
But really, at this stage it's just nitpicky technical detail to be filed away with "How come the bunkroom looks different each series?" The simple fact is that he's clearly Rimmer, the Rimmer we know and love. How he actually became so isn't really all that important.
I'm with Cloud. Tex Rimmer is the real Rimmer.
Well said the skipper.
I think it will turn out that ABE IS A CLAM will be the real Rimmer
Right, I've given this one some thought. That would explain why he didn't listen to it immediately. But he's been reunited with it for a while now. He even makes it clear that he hadn't listened to it because he wasn't an officer, and doing so now is an act of rebellion:
If he returned after even a small amount of success as Ace, I think he'd count it and listen to the message. Ace was an officer - a commander, in fact - and we can suppose that the rank comes with the wig.
So, if it is original Rimmer, I think he probably left the role under a cloud!
I remember Doug said at a Comic Con once that this is the original Rimmer, with uploaded memories from Nano ...
This could be true, but it's always important to remember that things somebody involved said and things which are actually true in the show are not always necessarily the same.
But ... but Doug said it ... surely you don't tell me he'd ... *whispers* lie?
Creators can change their mind, though. Its not totally legit until it appears on screen. That being said, I like that explanation. If we get no other on the show, I'm happy to accept it. I wonder what happened to human Rimmer, though, since the end of series 8 suggested he beat Death. On the other hand, maybe that was just a figurative way of saying he lived on in New Dwarf Rimmer...
Or maybe he received a little tap on the head and woke up x dimensions away sporting a wig....
Fully agree. At the very least, I'd want to see it in a Talkie Toaster interview.
If Naylor came up with an amazing story that needed Rimmer to be a new hologram, combining both sets of memories, he wouldn't hesitate to do it, just because it contradicted something he said at a convention. But he might think twice (with the key word being "might", in such a retcon-filled franchise) if it contradicted a previous episode. Writers do change their minds during the creative process, and sometimes surprise themselves when they start writing.
By the same token, I'd be fannishly delighted if - for instance - the Fantastic Beasts films reveal that Dumbledore is gay, as stated by the author. But I don't think it's canon until it's shown or stated in-universe. Nor do I think Hermione and Ron had an unhappy marriage, despite the author's other comments.
Anyway, I'm struggling to think of other examples, but that's my general policy on Word of God.