Whoever said models were better than cgi....

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Ant E, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Smegerama

    Smegerama Supply Officer

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    The point is that either one can look better than the other, but in Red Dwarf's case the CGI has always been a bit subpar. While the models may not be able to achieve the level of realism that good CGI can, they're far superior to the cheap CGI we'd be stuck with otherwise. Slainmonkey's frame comparison illustrates this perfectly.

    Honestly, I couldn't disagree more with people who say that models have a sense of realism that CGI can never achieve. To accept that, you have to ignore any special effects from big budget films and TV which clearly surpass anything models could achieve (Avatar, for example). That's not to say I dislike models (I was overjoyed to hear they were returning to RDX), but saying they're always better than CGI is just your nostalgia filter acting up; the same reason people claim all the cartoons and video games made nowadays are tripe compared to what they had as kids.
     
  2. hubbard

    hubbard Deck Sergeant

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    Models for me...maybe with a hint of CGI to help. Problem is a TV show like RD doesn't have the kind of money to make REALLY good CGI sequences, they always look fake and plastic if you ask me.
     
  3. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    CGI can always have it's pace, honestly from what I've seen in the intro it looks like pretty comfortable mix of both. CGI I've never been convinced looks like a solid object even with bigger budgets (let alone Red Dwarf's budget) in the way that practical effects do (particularly when well done). When it comes to the ships themselves I always find the models will look better.
     
  4. a1ph4riu5

    a1ph4riu5 Third Technician

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    Smegarama, I totally agree with you that CGI can achieve certain things that would be impossible with models. Avatar is a good example, because of the huge 3D world the characters inhabit, and the motion captured CG versions of the actors. You can make CG creations move in a way that can't be achieved by Jim Henson style animatronics. And realistic movement is a large part of making something look realistic.

    But at the same time, even in a film like Avatar, there is still something "wrong" with the CG that the human eye notices. I'm not sure what it is... probably the artificial light/shadow interactions not matching real life... but there's something that the eye still notices, which makes people talk of CGI not feeling "solid".

    I think CG stuff is getting very close to matching real life, but it's not there yet. The great thing about models is that they interact with real light sources, so it's harder to get that wrong :P And when you're doing model shots in "space", you don't have to worry about interactions with the larger scale "real life" giving the game away. For example, in old war movies where the model of HMS Hood could be a perfect recreation, to scale... but the "sea" she's floating in is very noticeably not to scale.

    Anyway, that's my opinion on models. I think if you can do it with models convincingly, then you should do it with models. Simply for the inherent reality of models, because you can't bugger up the feeling of it "being really there." But if you can't do it with models, like making Avatar's creatures move like they really existed, then CGI is the best tool for that.
     
  5. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Agreed. Makes sense to me :-)

    I honestly couldn't choose one over the other. And I don't see a reason why we should feel a need to really. It seems to me that using CGI and models to the best of their individual abilities and advantages tends to harness the best of both worlds.

    However, I do think that CGI tends to get overused in certain cases nowadays, almost to the point of seeming unnecessarily self-indulgent (not necessarily in RD though) Although there are various understandable reasons for choosing GCI over models in certain cases of course...I'm still rather partial to Red Dwarf model shots however, but I like certain elements of the CGI that have been used in the past too.
     
  6. TownYsend

    TownYsend Skutter

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    I loved the look of Starbug in Trojan. Would I be the only severely disappointed Red Dwarf fan if that's the last we see of it?
     
  7. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  8. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  9. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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  10. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    It sounds like there is a good chance that Starbug will show up again in at least one more episode, but to avoid even the smallest of spoilers I won't say which.

    Also Talkie, those model photos are fantastic, thanks for sharing them.
     
  11. Smegzoid

    Smegzoid Third Technician

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    Well said. It's what you do with the tools at your disposal that counts. I don't particularly mind a few iffy effects as long as the script shines. After all that's the really important issue:lol:
     
  12. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    nice to see new starbug model shots have been done
     
  13. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    Yes great model shots. I wondered if they would extend Blue Midget's legs in this series, so it was nice to see that shot!
     

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