Why no Kochanski?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by SoC00L_L, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. SoC00L_L

    SoC00L_L Third Technician

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    Hi guys! As much as I understand not many people like Kochanski here (which I find quite sad since I like her very much actually). What do you think is the reason she hasn't been in 'Back To Earth' nor the 'Series X'? I am really anxious for her character to return and they do mention her ever so often but she's never actually been on screen. Does Chloe Annet refuse to participate or are they just building up the tension to actually bring her back?
     
  2. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    I disagree that Chloe was awful, I thought she did a pretty good job with the role she was given, the problem was that not just that her role wasn't particularly well written IMO but that also it affected the crew dynamic and IMO not in a good way (Although to be fair this was in part dictated by Chris Barrie's departure in Series VII), I found it particularly grating how petty, whiny and jealous Kryten became especially in VII, but it would be wrong to blame that on Chloe Annett or even Robert Llewelyn for that matter.

    Anyway, I hope we wont see Kochanski back in anything more than maybe the odd flashback or hallucination (Which worked well and was one of the highlights of BtE IMO). The reasoning that I don't think we'll see any more than that is that I don't think she's needed as a character and that the two series that she was in as a main character are broadly regarded as two weakest series of Red Dwarf.

    The reasoning that I hope we wont see her back is that I always felt that Kochanski as a character worked far better when she represented some unobtainable ideal to Lister. I thought the Lister/Kochanski thing was better in Series I & II when she was a missed opportunity rather than the his ex-girlfriend.

    Last comment for now, I think it's a bit unfair that people often jump to the assumption that Clare Grogan would have done any better as the later series Kochanski, in total Clare speaks about a dozen or so lines as Kochanski and I don't think it's unfair to say that there's not much there to base her performance on. In fact I'd go as far to say that if anything, based on that I don't think she did a particularly great job.
     
  3. SoC00L_L

    SoC00L_L Third Technician

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    I feel as if Dave's aspiration right now (even throughout the series X) is to find Kochanski so that's why I find it really odd that it hasn't happened yet. I understand where you're going with your comment though. I personally really enjoyed the temporary change of dynamic and loved series 8 where we had both Rimmer AND Kochanski on board. Perhaps she is this goal that is yet to be reached and will be in the end of the series waiting for Dave Lister.
     
  4. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Deck Sergeant

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    Totally agree with Simon here.
    Chloe didn't get a great deal of well written lines but actually did well with what she had, Clare barely got any lines at all but her acting was so bad I could imagine if she had made it back for series 2 and a full time part, I do doubt Red Dwarf would have made it so far as it has.
     
  5. Hollo_Marx

    Hollo_Marx Catering Officer

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    Just copying my answer to this version of the thread too. :-D

    I don't actively dislike Kochanski, but I did find that her addition to the cast really threw off the established dynamic of the series. I thought Chloe Annette did good enough with the roll that she was given, and I honestly don't think that her bits in the show were as bad as people make them out to be, but adding Kochanski to the show changed the overall FEEL of the show a lot, and I think that's why people dislike her so much. People don't like change, especially when it comes to their favorite shows.

    For six series the show had been centered around Lister and Rimmer, and their Odd Couple relationship. Cat and Kryten's roles became much more than just supporting characters as the show progressed, but still the main relationship was Lister as the last human alive, and Rimmer, as the last human dead and Lister's nemesis and polar opposite. There was something very hilariously tragic that the last human being alive should be fated to spend the rest of his years with a hologram of a man that he absolutely cannot stand. That was part of what made the show so danged funny. Could you imagine a more terrible fate? You're the last human being in the universe, everything you loved or knew is long-gone and never coming back, and the person you're the closest to, the person who was brought back specifically to keep you sane, is someone you absolutely CAN'T STAND.

    Bringing back Kochanski totally threw that notion out of the window and killed the pathos. Now Lister has something tangible to hope for. Plus the fact that it was his "dream girl", is just so cliched and frankly, seemed like lazy writing to me. The less said about series VIII when they brought back the whole danged CREW the better.

    I'm quite glad that for series X they steered clear of bringing Kochanski back again, and it went back to being one poor sucker stuck in space with an anal-retentive bog-bot, a self-obsessed humanoid cat, and the universe's most insufferable smeghead.

    It's just more funny that way!
     
  6. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    Sorry, I missed this the first time round, she was in "Back to Earth", as a Joy squid induced hallucination admittedly (But then for around half or more of Grogan-Kochanski's screen time, she isn't really her) but she was there.

    This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.
     
  7. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    thing about kochanski is that she kinda gets in the way of the 4 guys being space bums because she seems to high class to be that group so she often watered them down and doug usually has to writer around her character so we could understand why she would go along with it all

    the reason why doug hasn't brung her back as a regular is probably also down to her being better as a character lister is lusting for but can't have because she ain't there

    but doug was gonna bring her back for the last 2 episodes of series 10 if i remember right so she wasn't forgotten about
     
  8. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I really like Chloe in the roll, and felt her time in the show was an iteresting deviation from the usual run of things. That said, I wouldn't have wanted the show to continue in that direction, I agree with Simon that the character works better for the show in general with her being an unobtainable goal for Lister.

    I also pretty much agree with what Simon said about Clare Grogan. In truth I personally find her very physically attractive and I love her accent, but to assume she would've been better than Chloe seems like quite a stretch of the imagination to me. In regards to her acting I don't think she either good or bad really, as I don't feel I had enough to go on. But I wasn't particularly impressed with her in that episode of Father Ted. Although I thought she was okay in Gregory's Girl.

    But yeah, I appreciated Chloe in the roll muchly. I actually love one of the scenes that many fans here seem to hate: The one where she's struggling to fit in on games night. I empathise with with her (which doesn't necessarily mean I relate to her in this particular case), and felt it brought about an interesting dynamic.

    I'd be happy to see her return in flashback scenes or perhaps in a similar way to how Billy Pipers character appeared every now and then in series 4 of Doctor Who. One idea I think could work well is if Kochanski was lost in space on another ship, and every now and then the Dwarfers gain contact with her via the visual intercom thingie. Perhaps we could even see the odd scene of her on her ship too, as opposed to only on the RD computer screen.
     
  9. For all his poncing, Lister's attitudes towards women are not all that better than Rimmer's - he still largely sees Kochanski as a sex doll for his John Thomas, something to be sexually conquested, rather than as a person with feelings, wants and needs of her own.
     
  10. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Deck Sergeant

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    To be honest, I don't see that side of him. Whilst yes, he clearly would like a physical relationship with her again, that's normal between mature, consenting adults. I think it's a pretty unfair to Lister's character to say that all he sees Kochanski as is an opportunity to get his end away.
     
  11. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I fancied chloe kochanski, met her too once.
     
  12. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    The reason? Mainstream sci-fi is misogynistic...:roll:
     
  13. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I think Sydney Stevenson's gorgeous. Even with upside down glasses on.
    Sorry sim ;-)
     
  14. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Why are you sorry?
     
  15. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Just reinforcing what you said to Harry :P :-)
     
  16. simulant37

    simulant37 Science Officer

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    Err, I didn't say anything to fandan-go...:roll:
     
  17. Strat-tastic

    Strat-tastic Flight Co-Ordinator

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    Oops sorry yes, my mistake. You're quite right dear boy :eek:ops:
     

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