Why was their a second weird shaped Holly in VIII

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Cloud, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    He made one appearance...and was never heard from again. Why was their two? I can never make it that far into back in the red without slipping into a coma to remember if there is an explanation.
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Holly is part of the Red Dwarf ship. The first batch of nanos brought the ship back...including its computer, restored to original IQ just as the ship was reverted to original design specs. This left the original Holly a 'ghost in the machine', an AI wandering the system, still accessible to Lister via control of his old Holly watch.

    We never see the smart Holly again, but he's assumed to be there - running the ship under Hollister's command.
     
  3. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    I thought Holly told the nanos to do something and thats why the crew was back or something. Why would he tell them to make another Holly?
     
  4. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Holly is an idiot.
     
  5. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    I'm not sure that looking for plot consistency in Series VIII is a good idea...
     
  6. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    It's perfectly simply. They got the nano bots to rebuild red dwarf.. but the mess up was.. the nano bots built red dwarf plus the crew.. and holly and everything in its original form.
     
  7. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    I figured that Lister preserved the ashes of the crew onboard Red Dwarf, in case - when they got back to Earth - they could bury them properly or hand them over to their relatives (or descendants). Presumably, the ashes were onboard when the nanobots turned the ship into an asteroid and when the nanobots were told to restore Red Dwarf, they read the DNA of the ashes and used that to rebuild the crew.
     
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    There are two groups of nanos. The first were Kryten's and they rebuilt the script (and thus the egghead Holly). The second were commanded by our Holly and rebuilt the crew.

    I'm not saying it's an especially credible thing. But it is there in the episode dialogue.
     
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Holly, Back in the Red, Part 3: "If I'm so stupid, explain why I was able to re-create a new set of nanobots and get them to resurrect the crew." ... "My job is to keep Dave sane. True, I'm not that good at it, but I do my best. That's why I create these little diversions to keep him occupied."
     
  10. ori-STUDFARM

    ori-STUDFARM Supply Officer

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    That totally passed me by too. Everydays a school day!
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    This also explains why there isn't a duplicate Kochanski. Holly knew that she was on board Starbug and so, when instructing his nanobots, didn't have the original recreated (the same decision that kept them to just one Lister).

    If you want to get fan-ficcy about it, it could be that Holly didn't know at that point that this Kochanski wasn't from the same universe...
     
  12. longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone

    longusernamebecausetheforumwantsone Second Technician

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    I always found "Conehead Holly" really disconcerting. I realize it was done to visually differentiate him from "normal" Holly, but c'mon. We're supposed to believe the original design specs for Holly had him as a conehead? What could have possibly been the rationale behind that?
     
  13. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

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    Well, there WAS a deleted scene showing Lister shooting the crews ashes out into space one at a time, but the more important question is... who did he think he was going to hand the ashes back to after 3 million-plus years?
     
  14. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    No rationale really, it was just meant to look funny.

    For an 'in universe' explanation, bear in mind the visual image can look like anything. Queeg proved that. Maybe our Holly, being a 'ghost in the system' gave the other's visual parameters a little tweak...
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    The conehead's just there to differentiate between Hollys, to avoid confusion. It actually wasn't written that way, and the version of the scene shown to the studio audience displayed the smart Holly the regular way.

    As to the crew's remains - remember that the nanos would likely only need a small amount of generic material to clone a human being. Even without the ashes, a few scattered skin cells or hair from the root would do. There are probably enough hairbrushes on the ship to clone the crew, regardless of the ashes.

    (This also further indicates that the crew's resurrection was guided by Holly's specific plan - the process could have included thousands of ex Red Dwarf crew members, people who have left but who've left a few cells behind somewhere. But it didn't, because the crew was intentionally rebuilt to match the period when Lister was put in stasis.)
     
  16. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    What would be the rationale behind Cat having a musical heartbeat? I mean other than that it worked well as a joke in 'The Santa Clause' ;-)
     
  17. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    If it wasn't broadcast on screen, I don't count it as part of 'canon' (much as I hate to use that word). Plus, that scene also introduces Cat to Lister, so it doesn't entirely fit anyway.

    And Lister could have kept them as part of the dream that keeps him going. Perhaps he thinks the crew would rather be buried on Earth as opposed to just casually dumped in the cold vacuum of deep space. I also presume the remains of the crew were onboard as the extra matter used to rebuild the crew must come from somewhere.
     
  18. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    I have recently been watching through all Red Dwarf Series VIII is dreadful. It has been a little while since I watched through it all but 8 really does suck. It is a cluttered unfunny mess.
     
  19. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Series 8 works well enough for me if I put series 1 - 6 to the back of my mind and just enjoy it for what it is rather than comparing it to classic Dwarf. But, if I watch series 8 and suddenly remember the brilliance of those first six series, it really does come across as a witless, badly conceived monstrosity.
     
  20. Cloud

    Cloud Console Officer

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    Thats the problem, ne and the gf have watched 1 through 8 over the past 2 weeks. so much dwarf and 1-6 are amazing, a few episodes that lack in some areas but amazing show and I loved every minute of watching through them all again back to back...I got to 7 and while the changes were disappointing after the initial disappointment some episodes are ok. Also it looks well the sets and costumes all look good (not the cgi though).

    Then we get to 8....A cluttered cast, a bad idea stretched through the whole series, everyone clearly acting up towards the audience it gets really hammy at points, the fact that I am not 100% sure the cat is in the series, the awful gags, back in the red never ends and pete...god pete part 1 and 2. dreadful.

    Also one other thing I noticed going from 7 to 8, 7 feels so well made the sets and everything feel good and authentic. In 8 it reminds me of 1 and 2. Obvious plastic sets it all feels cheap. I really hope they get far away from that style for series 9. It makes me glad a series 9 never took place back in 2000 or whenever it would have been because it would have followed on too much from 8. For the next series I just want the 4 guys, no kochanski, please god no mac mcdonald, no crew, I hope doug has learnt!
     

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