World Government or Merger?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by BigOleDummy, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Guest

    Just a stray thought, excuse me if its been posted/debated/solved before.

    All through Red Dwarf, from series 1 on, the only currency/money we hear about is "DollarPounds". I have all the series and the first two novels and nowhere can I remember seeing any other currency. In the earlier series the corridor's are marked in English and Esperanto which to ME at least , imply a main language and a secondary one. Take your pick which is which. SO...... In the Red Dwarf universe has the U.S. and the U.K. merged (dollarpound , English language, Lister having both the Union Jack and the American flag on his "bike") and the rest of the world is doing ....whatever ..... or is there a World government hence Esperanto? The crew never mentions any "other" countries except for the off world ones.

    Anyway, as I said , just a stray thought. Anybody have the "answer" or any ideas? Have I missed something somewhere?
     
  2. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

    Messages:
    862
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    Deep Space in the 15th Century
    They do mention other countries. Bulgaria gets a mention in Backwards. Sweden gets a mention in Trojan with the moose joke. Lister's best friend Olaf Petersen is Danish. In Kryten the andriods have Australian accents. Lister makes a reference to Albanian shepherds in Psirens. Kryten speaks German, and Hildegard Langstrom has a German accent.

    I always thought there had been a US-UK merger of some kind. We only hear about Dollarpounds, but we'd only need to hear about Dollarpounds. How often do you discuss foreign currencies? Lister is from the UK. Although, we don't actually know if there's been a political merger - we still hear Rimmer ask for the British embassy in Terrorform. So maybe it's just some sort of currency shift where they changed the name and set it against the US dollar or whatever it is they do, but the two countries remained separate. I think there are a few countries that use the Euro but aren't in the EU. Captain Hollister is American, but there's Americans living in the UK so that doesn't really prove anything.

    Esperanto is maybe a sort of token nod towards a globalist outlook that existed in Lister's time, but never had any real acceptance on the ground. I notice it only really crops up in series I-II and then gets forgotten about.
     
  3. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Guest

    Yes, you're totally right about the other country mentions. :eek:ops: As I was reading your post I'm thinking, well yeah DUH :-D. The sad part is........ I just watched Backwards a few days ago with its multiple mentions of Bulgaria AND Trojan with its many Swedish mentions. My "excuse" is its late , I'm tired and, lol, desperately want to post a thread/topic that would start a lively conversation so I don't have to go to bed. I've got another site/forum open at the same time and its politically based so maybe that influenced my haste in posting this. Still, I have to admit the idea of a US and UK "merge" intrigues me. Hmmmmmmmm..... that may be a short story/novel subject for me!
     
  4. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

    Messages:
    862
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    Deep Space in the 15th Century
    I note that Rimmer is from Io, and they apparently use the Dollarpound too. According to Tongue Tied, the novels reveal that Dollarpounds are the currency of the entire Solar System.

    Extensive research tells me that Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City, Kosovo and Montenegro all use the Euro even though they're not in the European Union. And conversly there are of course countries in the EU that don't, eg the UK, Denmark, Sweden. So we can't necessarily infer that a shared currency means a political union.

    There are US states bigger than the whole UK, so I do wonder how a "merger" would work. Obviously the UK must have punched above its weight enough to change the currency. But I imagine there'd be a lot of anxiety on the UK end about being gobbled up by the US.
     
  5. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Guest

    Yes and there's many countries that use the U.S. dollar as their currency too. All of these
    And why do you assume the U.S. would "gobble up" the U.K. in a "merger"? Hell, you guys could be the "dominant" party and save us from ____________________ (fill in the blank.) Or a melding of equals. Most of the crew of Red Dwarf were British weren't they? Big physically does not automatically translate to superiority on or off the battlefield or diplomatically. I would assume a more equal distribution of power in a "merger" myself.

    (I'm loving your feedback btw, I'm brainstorming an outline for a story as we converse! :-D Yeah I write a little :eek:ops: )
     
  6. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

    Messages:
    862
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    Deep Space in the 15th Century
    There would almost certainly be nationalist resistance on both sides. The US is an enormous country and is so dominant in terms of pop culture, that people in the UK would probably feel like they were becoming a 51st state. But I suppose population-wise the UK is about 20% of the US population, which would make it an influential state if it was. So people in America would probably feel very anxious about it too.

    The US and UK have radically different political systems too. Sure they're both "democracies", but I think each finds the other's system confusing. In the US there seems to be all sorts of different mini-elections leading up to the proper election, and the election campaign seems to last for like a whole year and then you only get two choices. And then it turns out the votes don't even matter because there's something called an electoral college. So if there was a union, would each side retain its own voting system? Would the goverment be in Washington or London? Would America become a monarchy or would Britain become a republic? Would the leader be called a President or a Prime Minister? I can't see it working equally, one side would have to give.
     
  7. BigOleDummy

    BigOleDummy Guest

    Yes, I agree. Every point you make is entirely valid.......... TODAY (as in contemporary ) but whos to say that they will remain valid hundreds of years from now? After all , we ARE talking about a science fiction universe. Yes, the U.S. is fairly dominant in pop culture today .......... but WE didn't come up with the best science fiction comedy ever. The U.K. did! lol, you've seen OUR attempt at Red Dwarf! :eek:ops: :roll: :-D . You're at least an "equal" in the popular music category too, and way ahead Rock & Roll wise.

    And WHY should the U.K. NOT be an equal partner in any "merger"? I would assume that that would be worked out in the merger discussions. You have some things/laws/mores far far ahead of us. As you lag in other areas. Who's to say that hundreds of years from now, with the E.U. (or its successor) embroiled in endless war in the middle east and Africa, China and Russia at each others throats and the unaligned Countries (India/Pakistan et al.) coming together that we (the US, UK ) wouldn't draw even closer together? Hell, by then Mexico and probably Canada would probably be part of a North American Union with the U.S.! Who knows? (full disclosure : that's partly how my preliminary outline for a story is playing out..... so far at least)

    Yes , the political systems, though similar as you say, ARE very different but those things are malleable. I myself envision the travesty known as the Electoral College to be done away with in my lifetime. And you can be sure that the politicians for all the parties involved would do their best to find solutions for an equitable sharing of power. Hell, whos to say that in Red Dwarfs time/universe that the U.S. even HAS 50 states anymore. We are much more fractured culturally than it might appear to some. We (the US) are really at least 4 regions with separate mores and laws pertaining to each. Northeast, Southeast, Midwest and West. You could probably break that down even more too. Maybe in the Dwarfer's time the "U.S." amounts to ....... the Northeast say. Again, who knows? Maybe we could ask the Professor from the Future? :-)

    Could be the Government is seated in ........ Iceland say. Or Ottawa again that would be something to be negotiated. Maybe by then we wouldn't even HAVE a "Capitol"/seat of government and all decisions/meetings etc. are online. Or in an Orbital complex to be entirely neutral. (science fiction universe remember) Instead of a President or Prime Minister maybe the "Boss" would be called the Grand Poohba or First Citizen, there's no reason we would have to stick with current terminology imho.

    Same goes for what the system would BE. No reason to stick to either a Republic or Monarchy ..... maybe a melding of both. Hell about 30% of Americans would be delighted in a Monarchy TODAY, who knows what the future would hold as far as political thought goes?

    I agree that as of TODAY there's insurmountable roadblocks to a merger but that does not mean that things can never change. Especially after Humans actually start their space expansion.
     
  8. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,916
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    During a scene in Doug Naylor's novel Last Human there is a scene involving Earth's president. I don't think it was too long after Red Dwarf had left although at least 18 years had passed (more likely 20 or more) to allow a certain character to grow up as he was just a baby/foetus when the Dwarfers first left.

    It could have been a much longer time period considering that character had his aging gene removed, although, I think it was shortly after his meeting with the president. (I read Last Human years ago, so I forget the specifics.)

    Of course, even if this is 20 years after Red Dwarfs departure, that doesn't mean that Earth Government was in place when they were around as a lot can happen in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if things were fast going in that direction, even if the countries were still independent in their time period, however.

    This is of course the Red Dwarf book-verse and things may not be the same in the world of the show.
     
  9. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,916
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    During a scene in Doug Naylor's novel Last Human there is a scene involving Earth's president. I don't think it was too long after Red Dwarf had left although at least 18 years had passed (more likely 20 or more) to allow a certain character to grow up as he was just a baby/foetus when the Dwarfers first left.

    It could have been a much longer time period considering that character had his aging gene removed, although, I think it was shortly after his meeting with the president. (I read Last Human years ago, so I forget the specifics.)

    Of course, even if this is 20 years after Red Dwarfs departure, that doesn't mean that Earth Government was in place when they were around as a lot can happen in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if things were fast going in that direction, even if the countries were still independent in their time period, however.

    This is of course the Red Dwarf book-verse and things may not be the same in the world of the show.
     

Share This Page