yellow belly rimmer (and jelly brain lister)

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by dodgebizkit, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    In series one, and generally 2, rimmer had balls. He tried to karate chop Cat in the first episode, he stood up to him and to the other characters and he didn't show any fear in the first 2 series. It wasn't until series 3 that they started making the running gag of him being a pathetic coward. Weird change to make for such a militant character.

    while on the subject I know they originally meant lister to be an idiot rather than a slob, which i think doug wanted lister to be, whereas rob pushed the slobby part instead. that would make it make sense why lister is more of a brainfried guy in series 7-x rather than a slob
     
  2. captainlisabeth

    captainlisabeth First Technician

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    You're not wrong; I actually prefer Lister as a slob rather than an idiot, but that's a personal opinion and I certainly don't imagine everyone feels the same. Rimmer... you're right, he wasn't so much yellow-bellied in the first two seasons. In RDX so far he doesn't seem too bad, which I like; I think him being a coward is funny and all but as you said, with such a militant attitude it doesn't quite fit.

    It does make it rather amusing though, having all that military quirkiness and then having him be the very opposite of a brave and valiant soldier on the other side. I think later Rimmer - before he went off to be Ace - was slowly coming around to becoming braver and suchlike, character development and all that... again, that reinforces my desire to see him now as Ace, see him try to be both Arnie and Ace whilst around the old crew. I know we probably won't get lucky enough to see it in RDX, but one can hope!

    RAMBLE OVER.
     
  3. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Agreed!

    I guess they just had to have one of the characters be cowardly though, and lister is the hero generally (spin on it! The old balckfiring gauntlet trick! Ki k the gun out of the stimulants hand. Etc), kryten has little self value and values protecting lister, cats are aggressive when attacked and also while selfish, cat will posse up with the others when in a scrape, so that leaves slimeball grassup rimmer the best suspect to be the comedy coward, though it is weird still, sits funny when you think about it.
    It really makes the BETTER DEAD THAN SMEG scene all the more powerful though, like you say, he finally shows ace
    Like qualities and evolves, even before he was supposed to become ace.
     
  4. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    There's a scene in Polymorph, just after Kryten has had hsi emotion drained. The polymorph is in it's ugly monster form, and.... Rimmer turns up and actually jumps at it shouting "HAH!" doing a daft karate chop thing.

    He's obviously scared, and it's not that effective, but it always struck me as rather brave of him and perhaps a bit out of character. Surely he would have just hid until it left?

    Okay, maybe he figured that being a hologram would make him immune, but that never stopped him chickening out in other episodes.
     
  5. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    All this has occurred to me, too. That scene in "Polymorph" seems very un-Rimmer. His hologrammatic status should make him braver, but doesn't. He did become more cowardly generally post series II, I think.

    Lister lived most of his life in a social structure in which he could be an idiot, and not care about things, and there would always be other people around to deal with all that stuff. He just wanted an easy life. When suddenly he was the only human being alive, he must have slowly had to learn more about the world around him.
     
  6. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

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    Wasn't Rimmers first encounter with the Cat similar?
    He told Lister to stand back and went to chop Cat only to pass right through him into the corridor.
     
  7. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    Only after Holly explained what Cat was which honestly didn't makes him sound terribly threatening. Frankly Rimmer's more cowardly actions only seemed to come into play when they started encountering more dangerous things. I really don't see why their is much reason to think he was terribly brave given what we had seen in the first 2 seasons because his courage was never put to the test. His cowardice seemed to get worst in series VI however that can be explained away by his panic attacks explained in Rimmer World, however he took his bravest stand in Out of Time which makes up for that. Only time were it seems to have been a real issue is in BTE where is just seemed TOO cowardly and useless in the diving bell scene.

    As for Lister turning into a Jelly brain it only seemed to be legitimately the case in series VIII, in which everyone was stupid even Kryten, I mean sure he wasn't the most educated but remember how he out smarted the Inquisitor? That was a pretty smart moment showing that he has brains that could be put to better use. Recently Lister got a similar (but not terrible derivative moment) in Fathers and Suns where he out smarted the cold and logical Pree which again show that his not totally empty headed.
     
  8. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    And in the remastered version somehow smashed into stuff, according to the sound effect :P despite being a hologram...

    Yeah, I don't like lister being portrayed as an idiot, hes smart but not intellectual, which is a great premise for a main character in such a show, and I'm glad they went away from that character (he was written as that character in the first episode - an idiot with goals) and made him the slobby guyy, weird that Doug made him idiotic in S8 though it's good to see that his brain has returned!
     
  9. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

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    Ah that's right Holy did explain it came from Listers Cat didn't it. Mind you, I suppose the fact that Rimmer told Lister to stand by shows some bravery :lol:

    Clashing noises for a hologram :-)
     
  10. Slainmonkey

    Slainmonkey Deck Sergeant

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    I thought that clashing was only in the remasted version and is meant to be his light bee crashing into something. As for Rimmer I think he likes to look brave when there isn't that much real danger. Remember how he stood upto the insane Hudzen 10 only after Kryten informed him that his programed not to harm humans.
     
  11. Whisper

    Whisper First Technician

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    I did enjoy that moment :-)

    His polymorph chop and shu had no indication of it being safe. Again I enjoyed that moment also.
     
  12. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    Did rimmer always have a light bee (in the writers' minds) or was it invented during he writing of meltdown? I always felt that they had just randomly written that in, unless he has been upgraded from a projection (this for the memory he neededca projection cage) and he'd had some weird things that were never mentioned before or since like hard light projection belt and other random things.
     
  13. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    Kind of as it was in the first novel infinity welcomes careful drivers in 1989 so Rob and Doug had came up with the idea pre-series 4
     

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