You can't change it, any more than you can change what you had for breakfast yesterday.

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Pendo, May 7, 2017.

  1. Pendo

    Pendo Supply Officer

    Messages:
    596
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Future Echoes and Cassandra both establish that you can't change the future and attempts to do so always result in what you were trying to change happening anyway.

    It was when writing about Bexley in the Ideas for Red Dwarf spin-offs thread that I realised that they have actually changed the future on a few occasions.

    In Future Echoes, it is revealed that Bexley was the one that Rimmer saw explode in the Drive Room. Yet in the opening crawl to Backwards, it is revealed that Lister took both Jim and Bexley back to their own universe where they lived "comparatively normal lives."

    In Tikka to Ride they manage to dramatically change the future by altering the past, but surely everything would have corrected itself whether Jeff Kay lived or died?

    And the biggie: Out of Time. They destroyed the Time Drive and prevented themselves from becoming their future versions. But if you can't change the future, are they still destined to become their future selves?

    There may be more examples I've missed. Feel free to chime in.

    So can they actually change the future? Or can't they? I know Red Dwarf has never stuck to continuity, the story always comes first, and that doesn't bother me. But I just wondered if anyone had any theories about how the timeline, and knowledge of the future, works in Red Dwarf. Are there any ideas to explain how some of these 'futures' may still happen to keep within the continuity that you can't change it?
     
  2. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,396
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Here's my suggested fix: in Cassandra and Future Echoes, time travel wasn't involved. Characters merely saw the future. The future they saw already accounted for the fact that they'd seen the future and acted accordingly. With no meddling time-travellers, how else could it be? There's only one timeline in these stories (albeit one with foreknowledge) so the "future echo" is just an event in the timeline.

    Perhaps the only way you can change the future is if you're able to travel in time, and re-do (differently!) actions that had already happened, which the future was depending on?

    So if you see the future, and do X, Y and Z to avoid it, that won't work. What you were seeing was actually the result of X, Y and Z.

    But once time-travel is involved, you can start swapping X, Y and Z for other actions, getting different outcomes.
     
  3. R.I.P. 2000

    R.I.P. 2000 Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,396
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Additional: I think your thread title sums it up:

    If you had a time machine, you could change what you had for breakfast yesterday - so the normal rules go out the window.

    The point being, what you had breakfast yesterday and what you'll have for breakfast tomorrow already exist as events on your personal timeline. If you remember having Weetabix yesterday, that's how it is, and there's nothing you can do to change it. Equally, if some timey-wimey phenomenon lets you "remember" having Weetabix tomorrow, that's how it is, and there's nothing you can do to change that either. But time-travel gives you the power to "edit" your personal timeline in both directions - with sometimes disastrous consequences.
     
  4. Abe but more Halloween themed

    Abe but more Halloween themed Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,179
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Location:
    Tomorrow
    Also important: the future came to the past and messed with it before the future changed.
     
  5. Abe but more Halloween themed

    Abe but more Halloween themed Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,179
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Location:
    Tomorrow
    <forum explodes>

    Oh, come on, and the new shiny one too!
     
    PeeJayHarvey likes this.
  6. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    5,462
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    I've complained many times that if Cassandra can see the future why does she try to change something that is unchangeable. If it wasn't unchangeable, then she wouldn't be able to see it in the first place.....ermmmm, possibly
     
  7. karnie

    karnie Supply Officer

    Messages:
    612
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    Actually, I address the Bexley situation in my fan fic... =)
    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12067118/1/

    My biggest time-pet peeve is in Twentica... simulants take over the world for twenty-odd years and suppress any and all technology, and the crew NEVER fix it.... so how is it that killing one U.S. president results in there being no space program, but a decades-long ban on science has no effect??
     
    ClareGC likes this.
  8. FeeBee

    FeeBee Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,742
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    They ended up in a different dimension the entire time and where not changing their own past when in the 1950s. That is the only thing that I can think of that makes sense.
     
  9. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

    Messages:
    851
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Location:
    Deep Space in the 15th Century
    Something pretty important happened between the '20s and the '50s that used technological advancements. So, did World War Two not happen now? Was the Battle of Britain fought with bi-planes? What got dropped on Japan?

    A theory I think we came to is that it was all undone because when the scientists eventually came up with the idea of sending the Expanoids back, they didn't bother because they knew the humans destroyed them. Another time-loop. But then, fior the scientists to remember, it must have happened.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  10. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,908
    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Interesting thing is, after the pulse, there were a whole bunch of comatose simulants filled with technology just lying around. Maybe researching that technology enabled the human race to catch up.

    You would still think that all these changes to the timeline would have had major ramifications for the Dwarfers' present though.
     

Share This Page