Hard Light Holograms

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Simonr1978, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    With Series X behind us now one thing I did notice was concerning Hard Light Holograms. When Legion first upgraded Rimmer's Light Bee in Series VI it was boasted that Hard Light Holograms were practically indestructable, something later bore out in Rimmer World. However twice so far we've seen Hardlight Holograms get killed, first Ace in Stoke Me a Clipper who suffers a mortal wound from a 7.92mm rifle shot and most recently in Trojan where Howard takes a hit from Crawford's gun for Arnold. And that's without considering all the countless coffins orbitting the planet in Stoke Me a Clipper, at least some of those must have been Hard Light Bees.

    So it seems that Hard Light Holograms might not be as tough as first made out.

    My own theory is that both Ace and Howard were hit at the precise moment their respective Light Bee happened to be buzzing just under the surface just where the bullet or blast struck, essentially they were both victims of incredibly bad luck and I'm happy enough with that, but I was wondering what anyone else thought.
     
  2. MisterBuch

    MisterBuch Second Technician

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    That's a very good point. Upon reading this my first thought was exactly the same as yours - the timing of the shot and the position of the light bee.

    With Crawford at least, there's another theory - perhaps Crawford specially adapted the gun to hurt hard-light, knowing that two of her potential targets were such?

    And maybe Ace..... uh...... was a different kind of hard-light, not as effective as Legion's model? I'm clutching at straws there though.
     
  3. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    I don't think she really had time, she beamed from the bridge straight to the armoury then made her way as far as we can tell straight back down to the bridge after picking up a gun.
     
  4. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    Maybe the light bee is located in the chest most of the time? I can recall three instances of the light bee's location being revealed: When Ace gets shot, when Howard is shot and when Rimmer turns himself off in Legion - it's always buzzing about in the same place.

    So it would be hard to lodge a bullet in a hard lights shoulder or head - but a bullet could easy punch through the chest enough to cripple the bee. That's what I thought anyway when Legion said he couldn't come to harm - a punch to the face wouldn't hurt him.
     
  5. omnomnominous

    omnomnominous Third Technician

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    Seems fairly logical that the armoury would already have weaponry capable of damaging hard-light. In earlier episodes there were mentions of a 'holo-whip' on board Red Dwarf so it could be standard practice for ships to carry at least one weapon that can incapacitate a rogue hologram where necessary.
     
  6. MisterBuch

    MisterBuch Second Technician

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    Trojan is a very fancy ship, after all. If anyone had super duper hard-light weapons, it would be them.
     
  7. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    I'm sure it's not so much fancy weapons as whether or not the light bee is hit.

    The problem with that, of course is Rimmerworld where Rimmer states his human clones (I think the name applies) were unable to damage his light bee. It could be that Legions version is made of tougher material. Or maybe it take a certain level of power like a direct hit from a bullet or an energy beam to damage it, and the Rimmerites*, as an Iron Age culture could only attempt to smash it with rock or arrow. Or they were unaware of how Rimmer was generated and the light bee just didn't occur to them. (As in they 'couldn't damage the light bee' due to ignorance rather than it's invulnerability.

    *It's as good a name as any.
     
  8. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    The problem with that, and my own explanation to a degree, is that Legion himself tells Rimmer that he is "Practically indestructable" and that whilst his pleasure and pain responses remain the same he can come to no harm. If it is just a matter of whether the Bee itself is hit or not, then a Hard Light Hologram is basically no more indestructable than his Soft Light counterpart.

    The Holohwhip referenced in Holoship and seen in Demons and Angels seems to have been a way to inflict pain on Soft Light Holograms and for Soft Light Holograms (in this case Tranny Rimmer) to inflict pain (Presumably by electric shock) on living humans, so is not particularly relevant here. Stands to reason that it could be used to hurt a Hard Light Hologram too, but as the ability to feel pain was never in doubt it doesn't necessarily follow that it causes any damage, infact Lister is left completely unmarked by the Holowhip in spite of recieving a lash to the face.

    The Advanced technology argument doesn't necessarily follow either, the rifles that were used to mortally wound Ace were basically the same weapon that had been in use since the latter part of the 19th century.

    As for the Light Bee being in the chest, when you're taught to shoot as a soldier you're told to aim for the centre of mass, for a person that means the torso, you don't shoot to kill, you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to hit. If you put the Light Bee more or less directly at the point of aim, it doesn't make sense to then say that it's almost invulnerable if any hit delivered hard enough and at the right time to that location will kill the "Practically indestructable" target.
     
  9. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    There's one thing that does account for differences though and that's the fact the Red Dwarf crew are 3 million years into their future. Legion's hard light hologram is probably way more advanced than the bee that was generating the Ace and Howard holograms. We know from Holoship that holograms get upgraded throughout human history.

    Maybe Ace and Howard are early hard-light models and our Rimmer got a super advanced model? I like the idea that the Legion Rimmer is still out there being a multi-dimensional Superman and the X Rimmer is just a duplicate "gestalt" entity of the classic Rimsy and nano-Rimsy running on the Legion tech.

    Also the difference of 3 million years means in Dimension Jump Ace's craft is also able to time travel to get to the different Rimmers. If he only jumped sideways to different dimensions he wouldn't have found our Rimmer because he'd have died in the radiation leak a few years earlier. This means Spanners Lister is like Doc Brown and Einstein.
     
  10. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    Thread moved to the RDX section, due to containing some Series X spoilers!
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    You have a point. I just watched Emohawk, and I had completely forgot the scene where Ace (this time our Rimmer turned to Ace, so a hardlight hologram) threw himself on the Emohawk Grenade to protect the others. His torso was right on the grenade when it went off and he suffered no damage!

    Of course, the explosion might not have been all that destructive as you'd think the Emohawk would destroy itself that way. Unless it actually became the explosion rather than exploded.
     
  12. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    The suggestion seems to be that Legion invented the hardlight light bee. I think it might be more the case that the first light bee was made of virtually indestructible material, but when the light bees were mass produced, they opted for other material. From a cost point of view that makes sense.

    I guess there is nothing in Red Dwarf to discount that as we've never seen our holographic hard-light Rimmer physically damaged at all. It does suggest that Howard's sacrifice was needless, but then again, he wouldn't know that Rimmer had this super-bee. (Assuming it's the same Rimmer from Legion.)
     
  13. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    I feel the need to argue the point that Legion invented the Hard Light Drive. His actual words are something like "I developed the hard light drive many years ago, I was a different person then."

    It seems to me then that it was not Legion but one of the scientists who made up his gestalt personality who invented the HLD and that explains its proliferation in the period since the radiation leak to the point where the Dwarfers encounter Legion and he has some of the now old technology lying around.

    As for Howard dying in Series X. I believe it's not the gunshot that kills him but the resentment overload that wipes his hard drive. In effect its Rimmer that kills his brother, not Crawford.
     
  14. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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  15. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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  16. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Legion does say that Hard Light is virtually indestructible, so a lucky or fluke shot might be able to injure a Hologram.
     
  17. Sylux024

    Sylux024 Third Technician

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    They didn't say it was 'indestructible' so it was still possible!
    They also always talk about how fragile the light bee is despite how it passed through Dave's digestion system!
     

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