How much have your opinions changed...?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Nicko1, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    Since you first watched specific series, how much has your opinion of them changed?

    I started watching the show at the beginning of series 3 and then watched 4, 5 and 6 before I went back to watch the first couple of seasons. I remember being really excited at the thought of seeing how Kryten first appeared and then being desperately disappointed when I actually watched the episode due to the sets and make-up. I now think though that Series 2 gets better with every watch due to the fantastic dialogue and it features probably the best character stuff that the show ever did.

    For a long time I felt that Series VIII was superior to VII until I gave them another try recently...

    VII has a lot of problems with the characters and isn't funny enough but there are at least some weighty plots which means it has some re-watch value. VIII still has the character issues but now the strong plots have gone as well. Beyond the jokes, there is very little there...
     
  2. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Interesting question. I guess for me it'd be my opinion on series 7 and series 8. I too used to prefer series 8, but now that isn't so much the case. It isn't as simple as preferring 7 either though. I think 7 has 4 solid episodes. That's four episodes I truly like. Those are 'tikka to ride', 'stoke me a clipper', 'ouroboros', and 'epideme'. These four episodes are most certainly worthy of being included alongside the first 6 series and are really well done. I really don't like the other 4, though :-(

    While Series 8 went more for the laughs, it has less consistently solid episodes, IMO. I still like about half the series, but it is not as easy to divide it up as it is with series 7. It's nice with series 7, because I can just skip the episodes I don't like. But with series 8 it's brackish waters. The good is mixed in with the bad. Within those 8 episodes, there are 4 good ones I'm sure, it's just that they need to be cut down, IMO. Pete could stand to be cut down to a one-part episode, for example. Cassandra is solid as is. I like "only the good" for the most part, though a couple jokes fall flat. 'krytie tv' isn't really my cup of tea, and i usually skip it. And if "Back in the Red" were 45 minutes instead of 90, they could probably cut a lot of the mediocre jokes as well. For me, a solid episode is just as much about making the necessary cuts as it is getting the good jokes in. So I guess 8 might still have 4 and a half good episodes in it, but it's not as easy to skip through the mediocre jokes. If I really cared more (and didn't feel like I was being arrogant and intrusive), I might do a fan edit of series 8 to my liking.

    Usually I don't bother with fan edits (watching them and never have I bothered doing one), but when someone did the arrested development cut of BTE, I quite enjoyed it and preferred it over the actual episode/mini-series. It's a shame the video has been taken down from youtube. If I knew that was going to happen, I'd have downloaded it and saved it for later viewing :-(
     
  3. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    My opinion of the first six series has remained mostly consistent, though I've developed more of an appreciation for how great series 5 and 6 are and how they represent everything that's great about Red Dwarf in terms of plots, characters and humour. However, my opinions about series 7 and 8 have changed remarkably in the 10+ years since they were originally broadcast:

    My original series 7 thoughts: Awful with few redeeming features.

    My current series 7 thoughts: A wonderful but not very amusing space adventure series. Although it's inferior to and very different from the six preceding series, on its own terms it's fantastic. My series 7 DVD will often be the one I reach for when I want to watch a random episode of Red Dwarf.

    My original series 8 thoughts: Hilarious, a wonderful return to form after the awful series 7.

    My current series 8 thoughts: Mostly lame, outlandish and pantomime-like with weak humour, flimsy plots, bad acting and poor characterisation as if Doug has forgotten what made Red Dwarf great.
     
  4. sanja

    sanja Supply Officer

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    series 8 has some very good episodes.... series one... are the best one after all, before, I did like it naturaly, it looked like warmup for even greater dwarf after it
     
  5. gem5ie

    gem5ie Catering Officer

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    For me- and I suspect this is true of many- it's series 7 that has changed and grown the most in my opinion over the years. Whilst on broadcast I found its change of tone and pace rather disorienting I feel I can now enjoy it more on its own terms. It has some genuine moments of classic Dwarf.

    I couldn't get over the total change of premise in series 8, and to be honest I doubt I ever will. At the tip of the iceberg I didn't think I would miss the costumes as much as I did but in particular the idea of the Cat without his sharp suits really jarred with me in every scene he was in (not that there were many). Lots of lazy gags and poorly-constructed situations and plots (I know the issues, but *even so*) meant that my joy and relief at having Rimmer (or, more to the point, Chris Barrie) back as a regular didn't last long....

    BtE seemed a bit too self-referential for my liking at the time, and I thought the re-use of the despair squid was lazy- the resolution made me feel cheated and detracted from the excellent emotional scene between Lister and Kochanski that came before it. However, as others have pointed out this is more understandable in a special and I have found it rewatchable. Am looking forward to series 10!

    Series 1-6 I have always more-or-less loved. However, having recently rewatched most of series 4 courtesy of Dave I don't find it as funny as I remember. And the "Ace's universe" section at the beginning of Dimension Jump is excruciating- I'd never noticed before the way that Chris Barrie wipes the floor with the rest of the cast when they're not playing their usual characters.
     
  6. Cloud

    Cloud Flight Co-Ordinator

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    original series 7 thoughts: This sucks. I hate Kochanski. I miss old dwarf :-(

    current series 7 thoughts: I still hate Kochanski, some of the episodes are pretty bad. But as bluey said for a sci fi space adventure it isnt bad. It just isnt funny.

    original series 8 thoughts: I thought it was better than series 8 and things were looking up.

    current series 8 thoughts: Boooo this is terrible...how could I like this. The rest of the crew are awful, the "jokes" arnt funny, nearly every episode is terrible. The two pete episodes are the worst. Red Dwarf at its worst.
     
  7. Diet_coke

    Diet_coke Science Officer

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    I just watched some old dwarf i havent seen in ages last week. mini rerun for me.. the one i was watching friday, Episodes such as dimension jump, bodyswap, the last day, just genius.
     
  8. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    That scene is one of the reasons that Dimension Jump is one of my least favourite episodes. Barrie however impresses me as Ace. He displays some good acting skill to be completely convincing as a character that's the complete opposite to Rimmer. The other actors' attempts in the same scene to play their alter egos I find less impressive.
     
  9. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    I agree that Back in the Red could have been cut down quite a bit and it's a real shame that a 60 minute version couldn't have been included (possibly for very good reasons) on the DVD.

    Purely in terms of plot and story however, I think that it could and should have been just a normal 30 minute one-parter. So many of the Cat, Kryten and Kochanski scenes seem tacked on and don't move the plot along at all.


    I don't think it's the same one, but there was a fan edit of BTE at the time which placed the Kochanski grave scene at the beginning and again was a big improvement on the TV version imo. A shame that that has also been taken down.
     
  10. yeckel

    yeckel Console Officer

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    I don't believe my opinions have changed a great deal. However, I do catch more jokes each time I watch. The exception is BTE. I wasn't crazy about it the first time I watched it. My system wasn't ready for the change in theme/layout. After watching it the second time it was much more enjoyable.
     
  11. Freeborn

    Freeborn Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I would say that as with others here my initial fan reaction to series 7 was something along the lines of ; 'hey! where the smeggin' smeg has Rimmer gone?, Come baaack'...followed by ; ' wait - what?. who's this new woman?, no no no, this will not do at all'..lol. However it didn't take long for those feelings to subside, and by the end of the series i was just about getting used to it, although was still smegged off about Rimmer obviously. Though it wasn't until watching the whole series back that i truly appreciated it for what it is. I really enjoy watching series 7, probably more now than i did back then,perhaps partly because i know the Rimmer departure is only temporary.

    Series 4 actually seems to be more enjoyable for me now than it was at the time...i'm not completely sure why either to be honest, I certainly enjoyed it a lot more during my last few sessions of watching the dvd's though for some reason. Series three is one of my favourites, so it may have been my initial harsh judgment with it following that series.

    As for BTE, my views are pretty much opposite some others on here. I wish it was longer, and was shown as a feature length episode, though i do realize the benefits for showing it the way they did, but for me it just doesn't work very well if not watched all in one go.

    All the other series i've always liked/loved, and still do...yes, even That one (bar a few minor fan 'complaints' ) Series 1 -3 are still as "perfect" in my mind as ever :-)
     
  12. Ant E

    Ant E Science Officer

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    ...only my opinion of some of the fans and Norman has changed!!
     
  13. SupernovaRedDwarf

    SupernovaRedDwarf Skutter

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    I really enjoy ALL of Red Dwarf if i am honest, except series 7. Duct soup has to be the WORST episode of R.D followed closely by PETE. I feel like they couldn't bring back the real (Kachanski) because she was a terrible actress. The storylines are not meant to be taken seriously, just be coherent and interesting.

    Couple of questions:
    Why did Chris Barrie leave Red Dwarf season 6?
    What the hell does the ending mean in the finale of season 8?
    People's thoughts on BackToEarth 3 part series?

    ....I await your reply.
     
  14. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    i have a theory that even doug didnt know the meaning behind it and it was all done in a rush so he could start work on the movie script

    although saying "the end" was like everything with series 8 a mistake :-)

    i feel the characters were written well, and the cast acting back into the roles was great, and having the old outfits and original red dwarf ship back was great but the story and comedy wasnt great in my appinion and felt abit lazy esp if you compare it to the half hour shows that were loads better
     
  15. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    He didn't entirely. He was in half the episodes!

    Basically I think that he found the filming of series 6 a bit of a strain. He was also working in The Britas Empire at the time so he reduced his role in Dwarf.

    Do you mean the bit with Rimmer and death? I saw that as symbolic, or possibly a dream on the part of Rimmer while he was unconscious (or both). He fights back death to live a another day...

    It's somewhat ironic that we're back to the holographic Rimmer in Back To Earth then. Some speculate he died anyway. I wonder if the holographic Rimmer decided he'd had enough as Ace, and pulled a fast one, changing places with the human version. (Perhaps with the help of a little tap on the head... Or maybe he actually found him unconscious.)

    I largely liked it. There were bits that I felt fell a bit flat (the tomato gag at the start for example, and that drawn out gag with the guy on the phone in the comic shop*). The slapstick bit at the end made me wince a bit, although I liked it better when I saw it again. I felt the Blade Runner references were a bit too heavy handed, although I got a bit of a geeky thrill getting the references too. It would have been nice to see more reaction from the other people when they entered the store too! I guess the twist at the end explains why they didn't but I'd have preferred the wool to be kept over our eyes a bit longer.

    The sudden transition from Corrie to the pyramid felt a bit off too. I guess I'd have preferred the transition to have been more gradual but I think this is largely due to time restrictions. I think the whole lot could have done with an extra 10 minutes or so.

    I really did like the specials as a whole though. I thought the story was decent and I thought Craig Charles was brilliant. A good start for New Dwarf.

    The Director's cut is superior to the 3 episodes in my opinion. It might be my imagination, but there was a conversation at the start when The Cat describes how he first encountered the squid. There was something about the pacing that was off, too many pauses between lines etc. This seemed to have been sorted in the DC version. As I said, this might be my imagination though.

    *Except some people loved that which just goes to show it's all a matter of taste.
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    Not at all - it was significantly cut down, that bit.

    The answers to the series VII and VIII questions are probably answered in the DVD docs and commentaries. Though it's been so long since we made them that I couldn't say for sure...!
     
  17. Nicko1

    Nicko1 First Technician

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    Doug probably didn't rate Clare Grogan much as an actress but Chloe was obviously brought in to try to get funding for the movie. She is younger and more glamorous I guess.


    As others have hinted, Chris does say in one of the DVD docs that he felt there were problems behind the scenes when making Series V and VI and that he needed a break from heavy duty TV work as he had been making series of both Dwarf and Brittas every year. This obviously isn't entirely true though as Dwarf had been on hiatus since 1993. Looking at Chris's career, I think it's likely that he just wanted an easy life and that Dwarf was too much like hard work for him.


    It looked great considering the budget and the 2 serious scenes contained excellent performances by Craig and strong writing...

    But I felt it featured far too many Blade Runner references, should have had many scenes cut, needed to have many other scenes re-edited (I guess some were for the DVD) or re-shot, wasn't funny enough, was too derivative, that the cast had generally lost their characters...

    The saddest thing for me was that it made me wonder whether I could ever like new Dwarf again and that's as much my fault as it is anyone else's. With Rob no longer involved in the show, it is clearly a very different animal and I don't think any of the characters are the same at all as they were in the first 6 series. I can understand if people think differently or, even if they agree, can overlook that but for me it's a huge problem.

    My immediate reaction to BTE was that I probably wouldn't watch any new Dwarf in the future but I don't know how I feel now. It will probably depend on whether I feel next year that I can just view it as a new sitcom and not associate it with the first 36 episodes.
     
  18. tortexturtle

    tortexturtle First Technician

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    Aw... I call that "Indiana Jones 4 syndrome". I experienced it with BTE, myself. I imagine if they ever make that Ghostbusters 3 movie, I'll go through it again. Sometimes the magic just can't be recaptured. I'll still watch new RD. And I'll still hope (however in vain) that it'll be great. But some of that is unrealistically high expectations and some of that is just reality. Fresh is fresh. Bringing back a sitcom from over a decade ago is hard to do and maintain that freshness. I'll hope for the best and try to not let it crush my spirit when it doesn't deliver. I'll also keep hoping that the Offspring will remember how to make a good album again...I guess I'm a dreamer :-P
     
  19. SupernovaRedDwarf

    SupernovaRedDwarf Skutter

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    Thank you for your input guys, everyone seems to have the same opinions. Regarding (BTE) I loved seeing the old cast back together, felt like they needed some tuning though, lister was brilliant, so was kryten.

    so does no-one really know what happens at the end of the season 8 finale? I thought the food dispencer machine was epic btw :-D was hoping someone knew a (Definitive) answer to that question, suppose there isn't one though.

    I reckon if they didn't bring (Kachanski) into the 7th season it would of been loads better. Most of the storyline was based around finding her, trying to get her back, not been able too, then they discover Red Dwarf and the plot continues in that direction with the nanobots. I know there was only one writer, but surely he could of done it better.

    reddwarf.co.uk - Should have a suggestion episodes box, let people throw in there idea's, pick the best ones and have Grant type a storyline around it. Thoughts?
     
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Executive Officer

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    I can't imagine anything worse than crowdsourcing a series of Red Dwarf!

    But then, this Grant fellow you refer to isn't involved with the show these days...
     

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