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Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by Murray, Nov 15, 2009.
Yeah ! Kill Crazy is a legend.
LET'S GO KILL SOMETHING!!! YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
I have met her, Photoproof, Autographs etc. *Barricades the door locks all the windows* I think I've committed a bit of a faux pas.
Very delicate hands and not quite a firm handshake but did get to tell her "I Love you."
*Gets on knees and feverishly begs you to not kill me*
Lol I love KillCrazy.
I'm of the ilk who enjoyed series 7 but thought 8 and BTE were a step too far. I will watch Series X, but if it's crap I'll just go on happily with my life firm in the knowledge there were only ever 7 series of RD.
Just like there were only 2 Terminator films, 3 Indiana Jones films, and 3 Alien films.
I hear what you're saying, but the only good thing about Terminator 3 was Kristanna Loken as for Terminator Salvation? That took three sittings to watch that cos it was dreadful.
As for Indiana Jones, Crystal Skull could have been better without Shia, the Tarzan scene and (as much as I Love George Lucas) Aliens otherwise it was nice to see Harrison Ford back on screen.
Sorry to nitpick
He did say he only considered two terminator films.
I'm one of those weird guys who enjoyed all the Terminator and alien films, although I agree some are better than others. (And the Star Wars Prequels for that matter, although the acting and line delivery made me feel like wincing.) I rather enjoyed Terminator Salvation in fact, although I found the ending irritating. We've had three chase movies already so something different was welcome, even if it wasn't quite the future scenario we've glimpsed in the other films. They did something different with the concept of cybernetics, and had a couple of nice twists. Some of the acting fell a bit flat, but I didn't see much wrong with it overall... (although I do find Christian Bale a bit irritating.) I would like to know why the terminator at the end didn't pick up the gatling gun. I think it was better than Terminator 3... although I liked the robots in that one.
And Crystal Skull was fine. Not as good as it's predecessors, maybe, but it really didn't bother me. Even Shia La Boeuff, wasn't that bad, although he irritated me in Transformers.
EDIT- And I realised I just waffled on about other sci-fi stuff in the new series section of the board! Sorry! I haven't said a whole lot about it, but I'm excited concerning developments, by the way.
Sorry, but why *are* you nitpicking?
I totally understand where this person is coming from, as far as I'm concerned once Del Boy, Rodders and Uncle Albert walk off into the sunset that was it for Only Fools and Horses... they didn't make any more. LALALA I'm not listening!
You enjoyed seeing HF back on the big screen, but they didn't, they watched it and decided that they'd rather forget about it... the end! What's to nitpick about?
I get that, I couldn't watch Eastenders any more after the death of Reg Cox.
I'll admit I thought BTE was disappointing, but the thing it accomplished was that it felt like the real Red Dwarf was still there, lurking in the minds of the writers and actors, just needing a little more time, episodic intimacy and a little more refinement than a 3-part comeback special could offer. BTE, while enjoyable but not brilliant, showed that there is massive potential a new series. I can't wait.
I can name precisely 3 things about BtE that I didn't really like.
1. The splitting of it into 3 parts. For me, the pacing between the three separate episodes doesn't seem to work well. When I've watched it all in one go, it works brilliantly well. I love the steady first part, hectic middle and then the sudden emotional slow in pace for the ending. But split into 3 parts over the 3 nights was, for me, detrimental to the shows feel. Each part had a different pace to it which, with a full day inbetween, just didn't feel right.
2. The strong homage to Bladerunner. I've got nothing what-so-ever against the Bladerunner homages. As a lover of the movie, it was really great to see a TV comedy I love send it all up so well. Except, for me, there dodn't seem to be any reason of why Bladerunner was such a strong theme for BtE. If the show had shown a scene near the beginning where it had explained that all the Red Dwarf crew had been watching Bladerunner earlier that week, it would make sense for Bladerunner to have been in their subconscious and would stand to reason that an hallucinated reality would have a Bladerunner theme.
3. One of the strongest images we had flashed at us before BtE aired was that of the Red Dwarf recreation of the Bladerunner scene where Deckard shoots the simulant through the plate glass windows in the snow. I was really looking forward to how this scene was going to fit in with the story. All of the boys blasted in the backs whilst running for their lives...When this scene rolled around, I was more than a little disappointed. Not only did it not happen in the Red Dwarf universe, it didn't even happen in the hallucinated universe. It was a visualisation of what the creator was going to write. Something that could have happened but didn't. I felt a bit robbed by that...
These are the only three things (at least that I can think of at the moment) that I didn't really like. They didn't ruin the show and I would consider them more a very slight irritation than a strong dislike. The first point is easily remedied. I only watch the Directors Cut and always urge others to do the same. The second point I shrug off as just one of those things. Although we weren't told that they were watching Bladerunner earlier that day, week or month. We weren't told that they hadn't been watching it either. In my mind, they had all sat and watched it just before Kryten went on holiday... And the third point only effected my first viewing of the show. And it was more of a disappointment of the trailers than the show itself.
Although different in tone and feel to any other Series of Dwarf, BtE as far as I'm concerned worked brilliantly. It reintroduced characters. It brought back a direction for Lister. A goal in life he was trying to achieve. Before it was always to return to Earth. Then it was to find Red Dwarf. By Series VIII, he had no direction. We've now got a new aim. Against all odds, he wants to find Kochanski. BtE has also brought a 10 year gap to all of the characters past. I think Andrew posted something about this that Doug had said. There was no mystery to the characters. We knew all there was to them. Well now we have this unknown history about them again. And it's going to be fun finding out about things that have elapsed since the end of Series VIII
For me, BtE is fantastic. It's not the best Red Dwarf. It isn't my favourite Red Dwarf. But it certainly doesn't warrant the bashing that always seems to be banded about on the internet. I fed up of people verbally bashing the BtE specials. Jumping on the band wagon of what they think is a popular opinion because they are unable to form their own. I fed up of reading about Back To Earth's "mixed reception". The truth is, most intelligent people I know who are able to watch something and make up thier own minds about it seem to like it. Most of them agree it isn't the best. But most also agree that it is far from the worse.
So my reply to "There Should Not Be Any More Red Dwarf" is P*** off! You really don't know what you are talking about!
I take offence to this last part. Although I agree with you about some of what came before on the note of Back to Earth, you can't claim that anybody who thinks Dwarf end doesn't know what they are talking about. As someone who has said on many occasions over the years that I think the show should be allowed to come to an actual end, and expressed a hope that we would get one with Back to Earth, and who wouldn't actually have been at all disappointed had Back to Earth been the end (of the three points of ending that I think of, with them being Series VI, Series VIII and Back to Earth it was the only one to not have a cliffhanger, although neither of the others were cliffhangers with the intent of leaving them there for a while!), I take personal offence to your claim. We have our own reasons for thinking it should end, just as you have yours for wanting it to continue, but I doubt you'd take it kindly if I told you to do the same thing you've just expressed to us. Both sides are perfectly entitled to their opinions, and that sort of attitude is uncalled for.
ADDITION: The point also stands with regards to others, including the original poster YEARS AGO, but as this is the recent claim you've found yourself in the crosshair. And let's face it, that statement can easily be seen as an attack on the whole stance, not just the person.
We've all seen the cinema in Red Dwarf so it's possible that Blade Runner would have found it's way on that screen at some point over nine years of course. I've still never seen Blade Runner but I found the 'zoom in' scene very funny indeed although I was completely baffled by the Nose World scene.
Fans who wish to pretend that the show ended in 1993 have the option of doing so but I'm glad the series continued as there were classic moments in amongst the problematic ones in vii and viii and I pretty much loved all of Back to Earth. Maybe because it didn't seem to be trying to recreate former glories and was doing something different. One thing I didn't like was Lister's toilet confusion gag in part two which was rubbish.
Bring on new Dwarf! If Back to Earth is anything to go by I will be shaking with excitement when the opening montage and theme tune come on. Which could be very sad but I think you all understand!
I can confirm that my post was an attack on the whole stance of "There should not be any more Red Dwarf". If anybody expresses the opinion that that they haven't enjoyed anything since Series VII onwards or that they hated BtE. I'm fine with it. When these same people express that they no longer enjoy the newer stuff and aren't really interested in seeing anymore, thats fine by me. When these people tell me that there shouldn't be anymore full stop, I have a problem. Contrary to some popular internet reporting, there was more than enough fans who did enjoy the return. A return that perfectly sets up for what could be a great new series (hopefully). And I took offence at the statement telling me that "There should not be any more Red Dwarf"
The reason I wrote "most" and not all is because I do know a few very intelligent people online who's opinions I value highly who just did not like BtE. I don't hold it against them. In fact, I have valued their input when we have discussed the BtE specials.
I also agree about the rough edges. I personally disagree that it is the "worst", but that is opinion. And everyone is entitled to thier own. It's a shame everything seemed to be done last minute. It was literally weeks before filming that they found out they had a 3 parter and not a 2 parter!! Had this all been ironed out months in advance, it could have been more than a "diamond in the rough". And that's probably why I'm looking forward to more Dwarf. With so much time to plan and write this thing, and so many months of post production and tinkering, I really am hopeful that we could get something as good as anything else that Red Dwarf has had to offer before. Although that is a big ask in my book!
Okay then, let me say this:
There should not be any more Red Dwarf
Should I smeg off now? Or should you learn to accept it as one man's stance? If we cannot say it this way, you can't say there should be more, surely? The two things are each one side of the exact same argument after all. The "should" contains elements of the conditional after all. If someone comes out with "there MUST not be any more Red Dwarf" then it's a different matter, it's one of absolutes and one that is determined to harbour no other stance. That particular declaration I would agree with opposing, as that holds nothing of the opinion. However, a claim of "should" has full implications of opinion, and not an absolute value. For instance, I can say to someone they should stop smoking, because it's bad for their health and all that but mostly because I feel it would be better for them. They can disagree, because of other effects that come when people are trying to stop or simply because they enjoy it and don't want to stop.
In other words, you have told all of us with this stance to smeg off, only in harsher terms, for not sharing your opinion.
The only defence I can give you is the opening post clearly reeked of the absolute "must not" argument. But to treat us all that way for not sharing your view throws you into the same camp.
There is a distinct difference between "There should not be any more Dwarf" and "I would prefer it if there were no more Dwarf".
One expresses your personal point of view. The other is a statement that does not allow for any difference in opinion. If you personally would have been happy had it ended at BtE or Series VI, thats fine. Your opinion and I respect that. I have friends with the same point of view. If you are telling me that it should have ended, then I stand by my original statement.
I have no problem with somebodies personal opinion. Provided it also allows me to have my own opinion. This thread title does not allow that and it bugs me every time I see it. That is the only thing I am attacking here.
And I stand by the fact that, provided there is demand, there should be. People who don't wish to watch can pretend that it ended when ever the hell they liked. But why should their opinion effect the opinion of others?
I think the difference of opinion we seem to have is our interpretation of the word "Should". I see the whole thread title as a statement of fact. It is this statement of fact I have attacked. If you are of the "I would prefer it if there were no more Dwarf", then I have no problem and my comments aren't aimed at you.
then don't watch the new series. I can't wait for it to start! I hope they make a bunch more series
Yes, the original poster is clearly not of the moderate "there should be no more Red Dwarf", but you need to understand that statement on its own is NOT a factual, iron-clad statement. Just as if you or anybody else says "there should be more Red Dwarf" it is not. "Should" is not a statement of bloody fact! I will say it until the cows come home, have been slaughtered and I've eaten a bloody big steak dinner, that Red Dwarf should end. Not a statement of fact in the words of most of the human race, even if the original poster did try to spin it that way. So I guess you're going to have to hate me for my opinion not being the same as yours. Or, learn to deal with it.
Looks like we're coming from the same direction more or less, but with different opinions of what the word "should" actually means.
I am looking at the word "should" from the 3rd definition given above. Looking at it that way, it would be a statement of fact by at least a few of the human race. It is also the way it was used for the title of this thread.
As I previously stated, I don't hate or even dislike anyone who would have preferred the show had ended already. I know a few who feel this way. I kinda pity them for no longer enjoying something that so many others are still enjoying. I just hate being told as a matter of fact that Red Dwarf SHOULD have ended already.
I would like to point out though, that more than a few Doctor Who fans expressed there "shouldn't" be more. And a fair few of those were glad that there was. The same when Star Trek The Next Generation launched.
I sincerely hope you do watch the new shows and find yourself enjoying them though.
And under the second definition, based upon the condition of my opinion, "should" is not the imperative. Therefore the offence and insult I took based on your remark sparking all this still stands as perfectly valid.
Doesn't give you the right to attack the entire school of thought for it though does it? Which is an act that serves in complete contrast to what you are stating as your stance on those who feel it should have ended. And yes, I am using should in the sense I keep referring to there, so you don't mix it up with the imperative. And even though those who use as the imperative drive you mad, that still doesn't give you the right to tell them all to smeg off with such a crass attitude.
Oh, and your "pity" is misplaced. If someone doesn't enjoy something but someone else does, they do not need to be pitied for it. To many people, that would be insulting. I know if I didn't like Back to Earth I would be insulted by that claim.
There are plenty of people who I am sure wanted to see Doctor Who come back then were deeply annoyed with it when it did and felt it shouldn't have come back. Take a look at the backlash against Back to Earth on here. Look past the idiots who attacked it unfairly and unjustly and to those who didn't like it with valid reasoning for it. Here's an odd little example for you, take the show 24. Now I have said on many occasions that should have been a single-hit thing, one series of it, and there are certainly examples of recycling itself over the series to help justify that. And I'm saying that as a person who's favourite series is the third one, past the point where I felt it should have ended. Things are not as black and white as you seem to be making it at times, as "those who feel it should end are those who hate it and those who feel it should continue are those who love it" is not always the case.
As for the new shows, I will watch them and make my judgements then, not before. As I have always done. If I find myself enjoying them, do you know what I'll still be thinking? "There should not be any more Red Dwarf".